# Japan's new flat-top 'destroyer' - Izumo **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 7, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549 "2013-08-07T02:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/1 "2013-08-07T02:03:07Z")
I guess Japan isn’t happy to rely on the US for ‘protection’ from China. What could possibly go wrong here? > [@](#): > > Sixty-eight years to the day of the Hiroshima bombing, Japan unveiled its new naval “destroyer” that happens to have a flat-top — dubbed “Izumo” — capable of carrying various rotary-wing aviation units, [reports Eric Talmadge of ABC.](http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/japan-unveils-largest-warship-world-war-ii-19878986) > > Consequently, [it’s also the biggest since WWII](http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130806/DEFREG03/308060004/Japanese-Navy-Unveils-Biggest-Warship-Since-WWII) … and since Japan’s official army was disbanded. > The new boat comes as Chinese officials say the country is in “[no rush](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-china-seas-idUSBRE9740C320130805)” to sign a code of conduct guiding military behavior in the contested South China Sea. [Source](http://www.businessinsider.com/japans-giant-new-destroyer-sends-a-clear-message-to-china-the-world-2013-8) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/2 "2013-08-07T02:16:05Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > I guess Japan isn’t happy to rely on the US for ‘protection’ from China. What could possibly go wrong here? Japan has had pretty extensive defense forces for some time. What do you anticipate going wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/3 "2013-08-07T02:23:35Z")
> [@](#): > > The move drew criticism from regional rival China, which accused its neighbor of “constant” military expansion. Isn’t China trying to develop a carrier force? ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/4 "2013-08-07T02:32:53Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Japan has had pretty extensive defense forces for some time. What do you anticipate going wrong? I don’t really know anything about the current state of affairs in the region which is part of the reason I posted this. I figured it would draw some educational comments ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/5 "2013-08-07T02:38:13Z")
Meh. If they get out of line we’ll sink just like we sank the rest of the carriers in the IJN. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/6 "2013-08-07T03:03:18Z")
This is something more for GD, but yes, there is increasing tension in East Asia. The idea of relying on America for support, is that that the US is only there for a war and are not at the beck and call of Japan for the minor confrontations which are occurring between China and Japan. In the cold war, the US and USSR navies played a number of cat and mouse games, and this is happening now between the Chinese and Japanese. This mini carrier is more likely a response to China’s more aggressive submarine movements through Japanese claimed areas as well as for the situation around the Senkaku Islands (Diaoyu Islands in Chinese). There is a non-zero chance of this turning into a shooting war, but not particularly likely. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/7 "2013-08-07T04:56:27Z")
That’s a “Destroyer”? Really? Why are they calling it a destroyer? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/8 "2013-08-07T05:14:27Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > That’s a “Destroyer”? Really? Why are they calling it a destroyer? It transforms. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/9 "2013-08-07T05:54:25Z")
As part of South East Asia (and ethnically Chinese), I don’t know who to be more worried about the, Chinese or the Japanese. =/ ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/10 "2013-08-07T13:51:56Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > That’s a “Destroyer”? Really? Why are they calling it a destroyer? Probably some legal/nomenclatural reason; it’s clearly a mini aircraft carrier, but for some reason they want to call it something else. Maybe it’s easier to fund that way if their legislature thinks it’s just another destroyer. Which has precedent- with the exception of the US and Spanish navies, most other nations of the world have called their helicopter carriers “helicopter cruisers”, or “through-deck cruisers” or something along those lines. The Italian Vittorio Veneto class were helicopter cruisers, the British Invincible class were constructed as “through-deck cruisers” and were only later referred to as aircraft carriers, and the Soviet Kiev class carriers were called “aviation cruisers”. The IJN Izumo isn’t a huge ship- 19000 tons or so; 1/5 the size of a real carrier, but about 2x the size of a US Ticonderoga class cruiser. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/11 "2013-08-07T16:20:56Z")
Is it a coincidence that they officially announced it on [Aug. 6](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki)? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/12 "2013-08-07T17:24:48Z")
I bet it turns into a giant robot 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/13 "2013-08-07T18:07:30Z")
The real disadvantage of the Izumo is the long recharge time on the Wave-Motion Gun. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/14 "2013-08-07T18:28:53Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The IJN Izumo isn’t a huge ship- 19000 tons or so; 1/5 the size of a real carrier, but about 2x the size of a US Ticonderoga class cruiser. It is approximately 75% the size of the Tarawa Class LHA Helicopter Carriers, which were just decomisioned by the US Navy. I don’t think Izumo has a well deck, however, so it is most comparable to the Iwo Jima class LPH’s which were decommisioned in the 90’s. The Iwo Jima Class displaced approx. 18,500 tons, but were only 180m long. So this ship has the length of a ship capable of deploying Harriers, or the new JSF’s, but the displacement of the last class that was built without a well deck. That sounds to me like a good combination. Also, the official designation for the Izumo is DDH - Helicopter Destroyer. ---
**Author:** ![Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Methyl_Ethyl_Death)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/15 "2013-08-07T19:48:31Z")
Wow, the japanese must really hate helicopters. And nice Starblazers reference **Hypno-Toad**. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/16 "2013-08-07T21:31:31Z")
The surrender terms stated that they couldn’t have aircraft carriers. It didn’t say anything about flat topped destroyers… ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/17 "2013-08-07T21:35:04Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > The surrender terms stated that they couldn’t have aircraft carriers. > > It didn’t say anything about flat topped destroyers… Or Gundams. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/18 "2013-08-07T21:44:24Z")
The biggest concern is the return of of the militaristic mindset. The Bushido Code that ultimately lead to Japan’s thirst for domination in the 1930’s and into WWII. Thats why the US entered into a defense agreement with Japan. They only needed a very small defense force for internal security. That gave them money to channel into their economy and rebuild it based on capitalism after WWII. I’ve read that there is an element that still idolizes the old Bushido Code. Given a chance they will try and make Japan a major military power again. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/19 "2013-08-07T21:52:13Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Meh. If they get out of line we’ll sink just like we sank the rest of the carriers in the IJN. 😛 Dude, it’s a flat top _destroyer,_ not a\* carrier\*. It’s flat so they can play soccer while at sea. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/20 "2013-08-07T22:21:23Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Dude, it’s a flat top _destroyer,_ not a\* carrier\*. It’s flat so they can play soccer while at sea. Damn, its hard enough trying to play basketball on a rolling deck, I couldn’t imagine playing soccer… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549.md?page=2)