# Japan's new flat-top 'destroyer' - Izumo **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 7, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549 "2013-08-07T02:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/21 "2013-08-07T22:24:44Z")
> [@Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](#): > > Wow, the japanese must really hate helicopters. > > And nice Starblazers reference **Hypno-Toad**. Oh, yeah, I guess people aren’t used to the word Helicopter being an adjective. Military speak is very weird. A DDG is a Guided Missile Destroyer, where Guided Missile is an adjective to describe what kind of destroyer. Same thing with Helicopter Destroyer. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/22 "2013-08-07T22:39:22Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > The surrender terms stated that they couldn’t have aircraft carriers. > > It didn’t say anything about flat topped destroyers… I’m presuming this was made in jest, but the reason they have not developed carriers is that the Japanese constitution (mostly written and ultimately subject to the approval of GHQ) has that Japan cannot have an offensive military and the forces must be defensive in nature. The Japanese military goes by “self defense forces” rather than terms such as “army” or “navy.” > [@aceplace57](#): > > The biggest concern is the return of of the militaristic mindset. The Bushido Code that ultimately lead to Japan’s thirst for domination in the 1930’s and into WWII. > > Thats why the US entered into a defense agreement with Japan. They only needed a very small defense force for internal security. That gave them money to channel into their economy and rebuild it based on capitalism after WWII. > > I’ve read that there is an element that still idolizes the old Bushido Code. Given a chance they will try and make Japan a major military power again. This is a widely popular misconception. The so called Bushido Code was actually created by the militaristic factions prior to WWII and is a radical departure from any concepts which predate the war. There is zero chance of Japan returning to a similar situation as pre-WWII days, not only because of the changes in internal politics in the almost 70 years history since the end of the war and the new constitution, which replaced the Meiji Constitution that allowed the military to take over, but also because of changes in the balance of powers in Asia and the world. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/23 "2013-08-07T22:40:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The biggest concern is the return of of the militaristic mindset. Japan has been rearmed for decades. It’s current military budget ranks 5th in the world, just behind Britain and just ahead of France. However it is not an exceptionally large force, it is all volunteer\* with long-term retention issues and Japan is not particularly belligerent as world powers go. It is of no particular concern to any of it neighbors as a military threat and the nature of modern technology makes scaling up rapidly a la the U.S. in the world wars rather difficult. Much ado about nothing IMHO. ETA: \* And I’m fairly certain trying to introduce some form of universal conscription would be politically impossible - probably government-ending. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/24 "2013-08-07T22:41:55Z")
> [@Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](#): > > Wow, the japanese must really hate helicopters. > > And nice Starblazers reference **Hypno-Toad**. Oh, yeah, I guess people aren’t used to the word Helicopter being an adjective. Military speak is very weird. A DDG is a Guided Missile Destroyer, where Guided Missile is an adjective to describe what kind of destroyer. Same thing with Helicopter Destroyer. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/25 "2013-08-08T01:04:14Z")
It’s just a helicopter carrier. From what I’ve read it can keep quite a few ASW choppers in the air, and so give an invading sub fleet a really bad day, but in terms of offensive force projection it pretty much sucks. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/26 "2013-08-08T02:44:37Z")
It does however, help the Maritime Self-Defense Force protect the various disputed islands. ---
**Author:** ![Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Methyl_Ethyl_Death)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/27 "2013-08-08T02:52:54Z")
> [@tonyfop](#): > > Oh, yeah, I guess people aren’t used to the word Helicopter being an adjective. Military speak is very weird. A DDG is a Guided Missile Destroyer, where Guided Missile is an adjective to describe what kind of destroyer. Same thing with Helicopter Destroyer. It was a joke, **tonyfop** , you silly rabbit. But I do appreciate you thinking I misunderstood and taking the time to explain. I’m sure someone’s ignorance was fought. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/28 "2013-08-08T03:05:42Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > That’s a “Destroyer”? Really? Why are they calling it a destroyer? Actually they’re calling it a _goei-kan_ which means “escort ship”. Though that’s the term the JMSDF (Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force) uses for all their largest ships, including destroyers and guided missile destroyers, so that must be why the article translated it as “destroyer.” This isn’t Japan’s first helicopter destroyer, by the way. They already operate two [Hyuga class helicopter destroyers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hy%C5%ABga_class_helicopter_destroyer). These replaced the [Haruna class](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haruna-class_destroyer) helicopter-carrying destroyers commissioned in the 70s. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/29 "2013-08-08T03:12:15Z")
Actually DDH appears to be JMSDF’s official designation of this class of ships, DD for destroyer and H for helicopter. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549/30 "2013-08-08T03:26:03Z")
Those meddling Sea Shepherds are going to get it now! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japans-new-flat-top-destroyer-izumo/665549.md?page=1)