# Japanse cooking **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 26, 2000, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738 "2000-11-26T06:29:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2000, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/21 "2000-11-27T23:50:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pugluvr \* > **Osakadave: I’m jealous. Do you still live in Niigata? I seem to remember that Niigata is Japan’s sake central, but I may be wrong. You know, the more I drink sake, the more I prefer it room temperature. I seem to be able to detect all the nuances much better that way. Maybe it’s my imagination.** ## ha… Every single place in Japan claims it is “sake central.” I’ve asked hundreds of nihonjin from every different prefecture in Japan, what is the local specialty in their area, they always answer something like “lacquerware and SAKE” or “fabric weaving and SAKE.” Personally I like Hokkaido-shu as they have much cleaner water from pure mountain streams to make sake from. And I like it VERY dry. The only nuance I want is the sensation of sake so dry it makes you gag when the steaming vapor comes up your nose, and burns as it goes down. ## Fenris, I LIKE fake crab. Well, I like it when I know I’m buying it, not when I’m expecting real kani. The main component of fake crab is a staple of the Japanese diet, it’s a sort of fish-cake thing, but alas, I can’t remember the name of this product. Too many damn kinds of fish cake to remember all the names… Zenster, thanks for the link to the wasabi site. Ever since I lived in Hokkaido, I’ve been searching for white wasabi root like my friends used to grow in their backyard. There is nothing quite like ikasashi with freshly ground white wasabi. And I’ve been looking for years, unsuccessfully, for this product. Maybe these people will know about it. Now if I could just find someone who makes that wasabi ice cream I used to buy in LA… ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/22 "2000-11-28T00:59:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > **…There is nothing quite like ikasashi with freshly ground white wasabi…** Ok **Chas** , spill the soy beans, what sort of squid dish is Ikasashi? Enquiring palates want to know! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/23 "2000-11-28T01:14:51Z")
The fake crab sold here is called _surimi_. I don’t know if this is a word for fake seafood in general. I don’t usually use the stuff, and here there is little need to. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/24 "2000-11-28T02:18:27Z")
Your turn to spill the _udomames_ **Doc**! Tell us which types of seafood you have available. Are you able to get hamachi and maguro? Will you have the chance to serve lobster? (Atlantic lobster _is_ the finest!) Do you actually have a place that sells yamagobo root, daikon radish, tobiko or daikon sprouts? Maybe you could list the fish assortment available to you. Let us know, we may just have to put together a care package for you. Another, more modern sushi that kicks @ss is to make a maki with rice, a swipe of wasabi and a tempura’d prawn\*. Let me know if you would like a primer on making your own miso soup, I’d be happy to help. Feel free to post a planned menu for some added input. All the best! \*To get the lacy frill of crust on your tempura, drop the coated prawn into the oil, and then dip your fingers into the batter and drizzle strands over the frying seafood. ---
**Author:** ![Locke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9a140/32.png) [@Locke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locke)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/25 "2000-11-28T05:18:14Z")
Also, in terms of actually cutting the Sushi, it helps if you can find a real sushi knife, but in a pinch you can take a serrated bread knife, and coat it with sesame oil or water. It acts as a lubricant, and allows you to cut with a pulling motion, as you are supposed to with Japanese blades. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/26 "2000-11-28T06:45:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*Ok **Chas** , spill the soy beans, what sort of squid dish is Ikasashi? Enquiring palates want to know! \*\* Oh, it’s just ika (squid) sashimi, cut in a special way. It looks like a little pile of square semitransparent rubbery noodles about 2 inches long. Ikasashi is extra nice on a little bed of natto, with a little freshly ground daikon and white wasabi on top. Yumm! I spent a summer up in Hokkaido around some of the fishing ports known for ika. The town mascot was an ika. Late at night, as I tried to fall asleep, I’d hear roving salesmen making their rounds through town, chanting eeriliy through bullhorns “ika ika ika itatakitai…” (loosely translated, “squid squid squid, want some??”) I had ika in about every form known to Japanese cooking, I once even saw sushi chef roll up his sleeve, reach in and pull a live ika out of a big fishtank, and slice it up and serve it right to me in seconds. At some times I had ikasashi for dinner AND breakfast for days on end. And you’d think I’d be sick of it, but I can’t get enough. And these days, I can’t get decent ika at all, anywhere near me. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/27 "2000-11-28T06:58:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > **Let me know if you would like a primer on making your own miso soup, I’d be happy to help.** Hey help me out with that one. I worked on perfecting my miso recipe, I spent 6 months on it, but I just can’t get it to come out anything like the miso that Mom Used To Make. In fact, mine tastes like crap. I know what I like in my miso (tofu, fujikko, negi, and if you’re weird like me, a teeny dash of chopped cilantro on top), but I just can’t get the broth right. I tried making my dashi from scratch (even stewing my own kombu and bonito) but I just can’t get it right. So I gave up and make it with diluted chicken broth. Now that’s not right… but it’s as close as I can get. Well, I suppose I could buy the prepackaged kind, but it sucks even worse than my recipe. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/28 "2000-11-28T08:16:12Z")
**Doc** , here’s a link to my [Japanese Salad](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=920657#post920657) recipe. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/29 "2000-11-28T08:20:05Z")
**Chas** , you scare me with the degree of proper detail (right down to the kombu) that you provide. I’ll do some research and see what I can elucidate upon a good miso recipe. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/30 "2000-11-28T08:49:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\ ***Chas** , you scare me with the degree of proper detail (right down to the kombu) that you provide. I’ll do some research and see what I can elucidate upon a good miso recipe. \*\* Ha! I told you, I worked on it for ages. It looks perfect. It just tastes terrible. Its got to be the dashi. These are all the exact ingredients for perfect miso, but something is fundamentally wrong. Its got to be some stupid detail I overlooked. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2000, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/31 "2000-11-29T05:19:57Z")
Just thought I’d \ this thread with some sort of speculation on your problem with the miso **Chas**. Have you considered substituting some _hanna katsuo_ flakes for the bonito in your Dashi? I realize that they are slightly different things. They are both extracts of bonita fish. I have found that hanna katsuo is much more delicate in flavor. You may wish to scent some chicken broth with a few flakes of the hanna katsuo and strain them back off. Big question: Are you allowing the konbu to boil? Evidently, this allows an off odor to develop. One recipe mentions the addition of a small amount of sugar. I’m not sure this is the best solution though. You also want to be sure to strain off the bonito flakes prior to using the dashi. One trick I use is to add a little yellow onion pulp to round out the flavor. Another factor is that your mother may have used aji-no-moto (MSG) in her soup. I do not use it myself. You might want to experiment with mushrooms to introduce natural MSG into your soup. Please do me a favor and post your recipe. Here are a few from the [SOAR](http://soar.berkeley.edu/recipes/) Archives at Berkeley. * * * -----DASHI----- 6 cups Water 1 Strip EDEN Kombu 1/4 cup EDEN Bonito Flakes - (may be doubled) 1 small Onion – sliced in - very thin half moons 1 Carrot - cut into thin matchsticks 1/2 c Bok choy – (cut into medium pieces) – (use green tops only) 1 tb EDEN Instant Wakame Flakes 1/4 Block fresh tofu – cut into small cubes 3 tb EDEN Barley Miso – OR… -OR- half EDEN Barley Miso - and EDEN Shiro Miso) 4 Scallions, chopped ## Prepare Dashi: Combine water and kombu, bring to a boil. Turn off heat. Add bonito flakes, stir and cover. Let sit for 5-10 minutes, strain soup broth and discard bonito and kombu. Add onion and carrots to broth, simmer 5 minutes. Add wakame flakes and greens, simmer 1-2 minutes and then turn off heat. Dilute Miso in 1/2 cup soup broth, add to soup. Add tofu. Garnish with scallions and serve. ``` 4 c Water 1 pk Ichiban Dashi powder (or make it fresh, see next Message) 1/4 c Miso (fermented soybean paste) Garnish* ``` Garnish may be any of the following, fresh daikon slices, tofu, wakame (seaweed, soaked 15 minutes beforehand) mushrooms, spinach or similar veggie. Boil water, add Dashi, add vegatable and cook for 1 minute. Turn heat to low, and stir in Miso in small amounts. Garnish with freshly shredded scallion, and serve. ## From: Ferd Date: 09-13-96 (23:46) 4 c Water 1/4 c Miso (fermented soybean paste) 1 pk Ichiban Dashi powder (or make it fresh, see next Garnish\* Message) Garnish may be any of the following, fresh daikon slices, tofu, wakame (seaweed, soaked 15 minutes beforehand) mushrooms, spinach or similar veggie. Boil water, add Dashi, add vegatable and cook for 1 minute. Turn heat to low, and stir in Miso in small amounts. Garnish with freshly shredded scallion, and serve. ## From: Ferd Date: 09-13-96 (23:46) 3 Tablespoons red or white miso – or more to taste 3 1/2 Cups dashi or diluted chicken stock 3 Ounces fresh shiitake mushrooms – stems removed/sliced 1/3 Cake tofu – drained,diced 1/3 Cup watercress leaves – loosely packed –Garnish– Hot pepper sesame oil (optional) In a small bowl soften the miso by stirring in tablespoonfuls of warm dashi. Mixture should be very smooth like a thick sauce. Gradually stir softened miso into remaining dashi and bring to a simmer in a pot over moderate heat. Add the mushrooms and tofu and simmer gently until mushrooms are just tender. Be careful not to boil soup. Add watercress and ladle into warm bowls and serve immediately. Place a drop or two of hot pepper sesame oil in each bowl if desired. ## Yield: 4 servings \*\* DASHI STOCK: 1 quart cold water 1 one ounce piece of konbu seaweed 1 ounce dried bonito flakes (katsno) Add water and konbu to a soup pot and heat slowly to a bare simmer. This should take at least 8 minutes. Do not boil – konbu develops a strong odor and off flavor if boiled. Remove konbu and add bonito. Bring to a boil and then immediately remove from heat (this is done to insure a clear stock). Allow the bonito flakes to begin to settle to the bottom of the pot. Strain stock through a cheesecloth lined strainer. _I think the above is one of the best for dashi. This is where I would try substituting some of the hanna katsuo._ \*\* * * * 6 c Ichiban dashi (recipe) 1/2 c Aka miso (red soybean paste) Aji-no-moto (msg) ``` Place the ichiban dashi in a 2 quart saucepan and ``` set a sieve over the pan. With the back of a large spoon, rub the miso through the sieve, moistening it from time to time with some of the dashi to help force it through more easily. Bring the soup to a simmer over moderate heat. Then remove from the heat and stir in a small pinch of MSG. Pour the soup into bowls, add misoshiru no-me (miso soup garnish - see recipes) and serve at once. If the soup seems to be seperating, stir to recombine it. Miso soups are sweeter than other Japanese soups and usually are served toward the end of a formal Japanese meal. From: Time/Life Foods of the World - Japanese ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2000, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/32 "2000-11-29T06:40:23Z")
Ah, now there are some possibilities. I’m not sure exactly what type of bonito I’ve got, maybe I’ve got just hana katsuo and it isn’t good to use 100% of that. I asked my nihonjin friends, and they all use these bonito packets that look like 1oz teabags, so I got some. I’ll check them and see what’s in them. I tried several brands of flakes without much success, but I’ll take another trip to the specialty store and see what I can find. Its all in the ingredients. I did notice that you can overheat the kombu, and it tastes scorched. I simmer it lightly and don’t seem to get any flavor. I even tried one recipe that said to let the kombu soak overnight. It had too strong a flavor. But now I think you’ve got it: No MSG. I’m sure that’s how Mama-san made it at the geshuku where I acquired the taste for that particular recipe. I like MSG, but only up to a point. That’s the problem with the dry packaged instant miso, its way too loaded with MSG. Thanks for all the help. Now I can go inflict a few more disastrous miso experiments on all my friends… None of them seem to notice if it’s off… ha… ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2000, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/33 "2000-11-29T07:21:59Z")
Please remember to post the final recipe at my recipe thread. Glad that I could help **Chas**. PS: Try soaking the kombu in water and then using it in your soup. ---
**Author:** ![Osakadave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f07891/32.png) [@Osakadave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osakadave)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2000, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/34 "2000-11-29T08:54:44Z")
pugluvr: No, I don’t live in Niigata anymore. Unfortunatly I had to move to Osaka for work. Chas E.: Yes, every prefecture seems to be famous for sake and whatever. Niigata was famous for sake and koshihikari rice. I also like very dry sakes. My favorite is Kubota. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2000, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/35 "2000-11-29T11:47:59Z")
Disclaimer; I’m speaking in terms of not being able to find “the best”. Actually, most Japanese I know arent “possibly greater food snobs than the french” after all this is a country where curry rice is a popular meal (it’s not a good thing to box a people in like that, even if it’s a positive accusation). Second, most Japanese I know wouldn’t consider it a sin to put avocado in sushi, but they probably wouldn’t like it, primarily based on texture (I have a friend whose father is a sushi chef in Tokyo, so she knows her way around the sushi bar, and she never sneered at things like california rolls at all\*, as seems to be the attitude in this thread). Second, i’ve not noticed a great difference in taste between using white vinegar and rice vinegar. Perhaps you others who say to only use rice vinegar can tell, but I certainly cant and neither can my friends. Third: As long as the rice is cooked well enough and sticks, you don’t HAVE to use the short grained rice. My friend Yoko (who has the sushi chef father) would frequently use medium grained rice since that’s what was on hand. Fourth: You are only a food snob when you sneer at others for making due with what they have and telling people they _have_ to do it this way or they are wrong. That, and thinking food HAS to be of “gourmet” quality. Expensive doesnt always mean the best. (not to mention insulting your host who has worked hard to prepare a meal for you). - These variations with things like avocado, mayo, and cream cheese are made for Americans anyway (who get scared of things like eel, hamachi, tako, etc). You wont find them in Japan. I will eat a “california roll”, but it’s not my favorite, and i’ve had one too many where the avocado was overly soft. None of my friends usually get them, and only my brother who is picky as hell about food really orders them), but I prefer things like tekka maki, eel rolls, futo maki, and the "traditional"types of sushi. FTR: Any East Asian food combined with a dairy product. I remember wanting to kick the ass of a chef who made “hawaiian” food and combined Lumpia (with nori no less, that was wrong also), with a cream sauce. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2000, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738/36 "2000-11-29T11:54:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doobieous \* > \*\* FTR: Any East Asian food combined with a dairy product. \*\* Whoops, that should read: “FTR: Any East Asian food combined with a dairy (or mayo) product is a heresy in my book”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanse-cooking/42738.md?page=1)