# Jared Kushner: Close to the Russia, Pushed for Firing Comey **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450 "2017-05-25T23:33:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/41 "2017-05-28T00:26:59Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Could you unbox this? I have no idea how this could be a message to Trump. Generally, you don’t “warn” people you can blackmail them by spilling your biggest beans. Trump, with his legendary belief that he can do anything he pleases, may well have been assuming that the Russians would never burn him no matter how far he strayed from their instructions/wishes/interests. Burning Jared would therefore serve as a warning to Trump: yes, we WILL burn you if you cross us. But of course it’s all speculation at this point–we just don’t know enough to say. Perhaps (as has been suggested in this thread), Kislyak never thought the US would get access to his communications home, and therefore there is no message to Trump intended at all. Time will tell, or not. But, yes, Putin and his people might well want Trump to realize that they are willing to expose whatever he doesn’t want exposed. It’s scarcely far-fetched to assume that Trump would _need_ such a warning. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/42 "2017-05-28T00:38:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This administration is beginning to look like a Don Knotts movie. Pence gets hacked on his _AOL account_. Maybe “fuckthegays” wasn’t a great password. > > Now Jared Kushner wanted a secret link with the Kremlin to be accessed from Russian consulates. Seriously. This raises some questions: > 1- How long will he keep his security clearance? > 2- Why would the Russians squeal about this? They have a stooge in the White House, why jeopardize it? > 3- What was Kushner going to use this line for? > 4- Does this request break any laws? > > Seems like a very amateurish move by a guy way in over his head. As clearly disturbing as this is, what laws have been broken here by Kushner? I have to admit I don’t know enough about this to understand if this would even be illegal. I get that it is highly questionable behavior and potentially very damaging politically for the administration but beyond that in what ways would this be something that would result in criminal prosecution for anyone? Or is it the fact none of these contacts were disclosed when they should have been? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/43 "2017-05-28T01:20:32Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > It’s such a shame SNL is on hiatus for the summer. If I worked on that show, I would have no problem working year-round until Occupy White House is sent packing. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/44 "2017-05-28T01:30:30Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > As clearly disturbing as this is, what laws have been broken here by Kushner? I have to admit I don’t know enough about this to understand if this would even be illegal. I get that it is highly questionable behavior and potentially very damaging politically for the administration but beyond that in what ways would this be something that would result in criminal prosecution for anyone? Or is it the fact none of these contacts were disclosed when they should have been? For certain he is guilty of falsifying his security clearance form. That’s a felony but I believe only punishable by a 5 year sentence. Some of the talking heads on television say he could be in violation of the Espionage Act but I’m not equipped to say how that works. How he thought this would work out, I have no idea. Did he not realize that the FBI would notice frequent visits to Russian consulates? Maybe he figures that since nobody has ever heard his voice that they wouldn’t know who he is on the Russian phones. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/45 "2017-05-28T02:30:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > How he thought this would work out, I have no idea. Did he not realize that the FBI would notice frequent visits to Russian consulates? Maybe he figures that since nobody has ever heard his voice that they wouldn’t know who he is on the Russian phones. If there is a silver lining here, we are learning about the flaws in our democracy at the hands of total incompetents. ---
**Author:** ![Buttercup\_Smith](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buttercup_smith/32/473_2.png) [@Buttercup\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buttercup_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/46 "2017-05-28T03:57:41Z")
I think the leaks or some of them are from Flynn himself. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/47 "2017-05-28T04:29:04Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > As clearly disturbing as this is, what laws have been broken here by Kushner? I have to admit I don’t know enough about this to understand if this would even be illegal. I get that it is highly questionable behavior and potentially very damaging politically for the administration but beyond that in what ways would this be something that would result in criminal prosecution for anyone? Or is it the fact none of these contacts were disclosed when they should have been? An [ex-CIA director,](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/335398-ex-cia-director-if-kushner-set-up-secure-line-with-russia-cia) who would presumably know about such things: > [@](#): > > if an American intelligence officer had done anything like this, we’d consider it espionage. Presumably someone as close to the POTUS as Kushner has access to more US secrets than almost any CIA officer. Even the act of going to the soviet embassy unapproved would be considered defection, if an intelligent agent were to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/48 "2017-05-28T04:58:32Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > An [ex-CIA director,](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/335398-ex-cia-director-if-kushner-set-up-secure-line-with-russia-cia) who would presumably know about such things:… That clarifies it some but I’m still curious to see what specific charges are he could face. > [@griffin1977](#): > > …if an intelligent agent were to do it. I’m pretty sure Kushner isn’t much of an intelligent agent. Or an intelligent anything else. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/49 "2017-05-28T05:07:13Z")
The [NYT reported today](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/us/politics/kushner-talked-to-russian-envoy-about-creating-secret-channel-with-kremlin.html) the main reason for this “was for Russian military officials to brief Mr. Flynn about the Syrian war and to discuss ways to cooperate there.” On its face I don’t know why that would be espionage. Of course, I don’t understand why this would have to be done using a secret back channel outside the reach of US intelligence agencies. That element alone is suspicious and is likely why Kushner is in such trouble. Just when it seems like these people can’t be bigger buffoons… ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/50 "2017-05-28T05:25:33Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > That clarifies it some but I’m still curious to see what specific charges are he could face. > I’m pretty sure Kushner isn’t much of an intelligent agent. Or an intelligent anything else. 😃 Ignoring the typo joke 🙂 I was wondering if there are laws that apply to intelligence agents, but not anyone else (or whether they only apply if you have access to materials that are classified as confidential). e.g. - The whole being “treated like defection” thing. Is a US civilian intelligence officer who flees to the Russian embassy (or all the way to Russia), but does nothing else (provably at least) committing a crime? It would be totally legal for a normal US citizen to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/51 "2017-05-28T05:41:39Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > The [NYT reported today](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/us/politics/kushner-talked-to-russian-envoy-about-creating-secret-channel-with-kremlin.html) the main reason for this “was for Russian military officials to brief Mr. Flynn about the Syrian war and to discuss ways to cooperate there.” On its face I don’t know why that would be espionage. Of course, I don’t understand why this would have to be done using a secret back channel outside the reach of US intelligence agencies. That element alone is suspicious and is likely why Kushner is in such trouble. > > Just when it seems like these people can’t be bigger buffoons… I think that Kushner watched Burn After Reading and thought “that sounds alright.” ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/52 "2017-05-28T07:00:28Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I think that Kushner watched Burn After Reading and thought “that sounds alright.” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/flY5nEphdSs/hqdefault.jpg "Burn After Reading (2008). The Russian Embassy") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flY5nEphdSs) ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/53 "2017-05-28T14:13:07Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > The [NYT reported today](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/us/politics/kushner-talked-to-russian-envoy-about-creating-secret-channel-with-kremlin.html) the main reason for this “was for Russian military officials to brief Mr. Flynn about the Syrian war and to discuss ways to cooperate there.” On its face I don’t know why that would be espionage. Of course, I don’t understand why this would have to be done using a secret back channel outside the reach of US intelligence agencies. That element alone is suspicious and is likely why Kushner is in such trouble. You’re right. There is no reason this would have to be done using a secret back channel. There are actual legitimate channels to do this. There is no reason to do it this way unless you’re actively trying to hide what you’re doing from the US government. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/54 "2017-05-28T14:29:07Z")
Has he not heard of WhatsApp. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/55 "2017-05-28T15:53:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They have also been bragging about Helm. Perhaps they want to destabilize the US Presidency. This is Manchurian Candidate stuff. Yes, a lot of people are wondering why Russia would want to risk losing “their asset in the White House”, but that’s not what Russia really cares about. They know that if Trump, or anyone, started to blatantly favor Russia, the checks and balances of the US system would likely stymie their plans. What they really want to do is delegitimize the the US as the world standard for how democracy is supposed to function. How could the US criticize a Syrian or Iranian election, if they can’t even keep their own elections free from corruption and foreign influence? Russia is playing the long game here. > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > As clearly disturbing as this is, what laws have been broken here by Kushner? I have to admit I don’t know enough about this to understand if this would even be illegal. At a minimum, it would seem to be a clear attempt to circumvent the requirements of the [Presidential Records Act](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2009/09/19/reality-check-presidential-records-act-1978-meets-web-based-social-media-2009): > [@](#): > > The PRA affects our day-to-day life in the White House. > This very blog post will be archived. All emails on the White House system are automatically saved. Commercial email services are blocked from White House computers in part because of the PRA. The statute even applies to handwritten notes between staff. > The PRA also extends to communications from people outside the White House. So if a lobbyist or CEO emails the White House, that communication is a presidential record and will eventually be made public. The same holds true for correspondence received by the White House from the public. Because of the PRA, Presidents Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush all treated letters, faxes, and other communications from the public as presidential records. > Here’s where it gets interesting. The PRA was written in 1978. It doesn’t have a section on email. But everyone agrees that these electronic communications meet the Act’s broad definition of presidential records, and that the White House is legally required to preserve them. And the [Presidential and Federal Records Act Amendment of 2014](https://blog.microfocus.com/government-agency-electronic-communication-archiving-requirements/) (HR 1233) – > [@](#): > > “Prohibits an officer or employee of an executive agency from creating or sending a record using a non-official electronic messaging account unless such officer or employee: (1) copies an official electronic messaging account of the officer or employee in the original creation or transmission of the record, or (2) forwards a complete copy of the record to an official electronic messaging account of the officer or employee within five days after the original creation or transmission of the record. Provides for disciplinary action against an agency officer or employee for an intentional violation of such prohibition.” ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/56 "2017-05-28T17:11:18Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > What they really want to do is delegitimize the the US as the world standard for how democracy is supposed to function. Is this a serious sentence? In 240 years no new nation has followed the US experiment, maybe some country in Africa that soon gave that up. The USA is a political basket case - you’ve elected a reality tv presenter as Head of State, he represents a political party that doesn’t want him, Congress is a licence to print money, the people have little representation, [Princetown academics say it is a oligarchy](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746), people are arguing seriously about which celebrity team should run the country next time. Surely - as you see a Pope not wishing to even be in the President’s company, entire sessions of a G& spent trying to explain the basics of climate change to a man/child - you must grasp how USA has become the laughing stock of the world. ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/57 "2017-05-28T17:12:23Z")
I can’t comment to his alleged doings but damn, he looks like a grown up version of Damian from the movie T_he Omen_. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/58 "2017-05-28T17:15:29Z")
Syria, my ass. This is about money. Too many people in this administration have too many ties to Russia and they need a way to communicate with Putin in an untraceable way to make sure each side can get what they need from the other. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/59 "2017-05-28T17:24:04Z")
Sake of argument here. Let’s say that the intelligence community has Trump and his administration dead to rights. Manafort, Flynn and Kushner on tape colluding with Russians and all three willing to testify against Trump and Pence. Would even that be enough at this point? Would the GOP still be able to weather the storm? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/60 "2017-05-28T17:39:21Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Sake of argument here. Let’s say that the intelligence community has Trump and his administration dead to rights. Manafort, Flynn and Kushner on tape colluding with Russians and all three willing to testify against Trump and Pence. Would even that be enough at this point? Would the GOP still be able to weather the storm? Depends on public opinion. I absolutely think that McConnell and Ryan would forgive active collusion with Russia if the GOP survived, they keep their jobs, they can pass tax cuts, etc. Don’t think there’s any moral outrage in the leadership, just self preservation. Now, if it did come out that there was proof I think public opinion would swing against them, so that theory probably won’t be tested (although their prevaricating so far is decent evidence, IMO). My worry about be what do the true believers do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450.md?page=4)