# Jared Kushner: Close to the Russia, Pushed for Firing Comey **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450 "2017-05-25T23:33:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/81 "2017-05-29T21:15:35Z")
It is quite impossible that the Russian ambassador didn’t intend for his communications to be intercepted. Encryption that’s unbreakable even by the NSA exists and is readily available, and I can’t believe that a major national power like Russia would be so incompetent as to not use it in their intelligence service, especially not with the ambassador to their prime rival. If the Russian ambassador had wanted to send an unreadable message, he would have. The fact that this message was intercepted, then, means that Russia wanted it intercepted. Any analysis of motives must start from there. I think the most plausible explanation is that this is a warning shot, that by taking down Kushner they want to remind Trump that they can take him down too if he doesn’t do what they want. Whatever that is. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/82 "2017-05-29T21:47:45Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Bad news for Jared. Trump has [“total confidence”](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/28/trump-kushner-support-238913) in him. Pretty sure that Trump had “total confidence” in Manafort, Flynn, and Comey before parting ways with them. Kiss of death. Still it’s really hard to banish Jared without also banishing Ivanka, and I think she’ll end up staying with her father right up until the end. She’ll end up trying to coax him out of the White House and minimize the public spectacle as best she can. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/83 "2017-05-29T21:51:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think the most plausible explanation is that this is a warning shot, that by taking down Kushner they want to remind Trump that they can take him down too if he doesn’t do what they want. Whatever that is. The Manchurian candidate. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/84 "2017-05-29T22:10:28Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Still it’s really hard to banish Jared without also banishing Ivanka, and I think she’ll end up staying with her father right up until the end. She’ll end up trying to coax him out of the White House and minimize the public spectacle as best she can. I await the evidence Ivanka Trump is any less dishonest, avaricious and power-hungry than her father. The assumption that she’s a reasonable, decently level-headed person amidst the wolves appears to stem solely two from things: 1. She can speak bullshit much more fluently than Trump 2. She’s extremely beautiful. I think she’s got everyone fooled. I suspect she’s as evil as her father. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/85 "2017-05-29T22:13:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Which countries are you talking about in particular? Are we talking about Presidential vs. Parliamentary democracies here? At least according to [this map from Wikipedia](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Forms_of_government.svg), most countries in the Americas use a Presidential system, with Canada being a notable exception. Africa and the former Soviet states seem to have a mix of Presidential and semi-Presidential systems, at least nominally. How democratic some of these “republics” are, and how comparable their governments are to that of the United States, is another matter. From the same source: European states mostly use a Parliamentary system, as do Japan, India and its neighbors (excluding China of course), Australia, and Canada. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/86 "2017-05-29T22:35:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I await the evidence Ivanka Trump is any less dishonest, avaricious and power-hungry than her father… I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise, but when it comes down to it I think she’ll be savvy enough to recognize it’s in the family’s best interests (financial & otherwise) for her father to go quietly. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/87 "2017-05-29T22:59:34Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise, but when it comes down to it I think she’ll be savvy enough to recognize it’s in the family’s best interests (financial & otherwise) for her father to go quietly. I agree that Ivanka is probably as malicious as Trump, albeit not as obviously unhinged. But I suspect that whatever shred of loyalty Trump may actually have is directed to his kids. I don’t think Ivanka will stick with him trying heroically to minimize the damage Trump has done to the world. Rather, hers will simply be the last back into which Trump plants a shank. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/88 "2017-05-29T23:14:05Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I agree that Ivanka is probably as malicious as Trump, albeit not as obviously unhinged. But I suspect that whatever shred of loyalty Trump may actually have is directed to his kids. I don’t think Ivanka will stick with him trying heroically to minimize the damage Trump has done to the world. Rather, hers will simply be the last back into which Trump plants a shank. Her Mama gets all his shit if he croaks, so who knows? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/89 "2017-05-31T06:36:25Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I agree that Ivanka is probably as malicious as Trump, albeit not as obviously unhinged. Unless you mess with her Chinese sweatshops: [http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/30/men-probing-ivanka-trump-brands-in-china-arrested-missing.html](http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/30/men-probing-ivanka-trump-brands-in-china-arrested-missing.html) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/90 "2017-05-31T17:58:36Z")
Comey will testify soon that Trump pressured him to end the investigation (according to CNN): > **[CNN: Comey To Testify Publicly That Trump Pressured Him To End Flynn Probe](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/comey-testify-pressure-trump-russia-probe)** > > Ousted FBI Director James Comey plans to testify in public that President Donald Trump pressured him to quash the bureau's investigation into Trump's former national security adviser… ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/91 "2017-05-31T20:57:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Comey will testify soon that Trump pressured him to end the investigation (according to CNN): > > [CNN: Comey To Testify Publicly That Trump Pressured Him To End Flynn Probe - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/comey-testify-pressure-trump-russia-probe) I’ve lost track of how this, in and of itself, is not a solid reason to impeach. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/92 "2017-05-31T21:04:26Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’ve lost track of how this, in and of itself, is not a solid reason to impeach. It’s a great reason to impeach, one of many. And Congress can impeach for anything they choose to call a high crime or misdemeanor, so they don’t need a great reason. But they do need the votes, and the votes will not be there as long as Trump keeps appointing right wing judges, and signing right wing legislation. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/93 "2017-05-31T22:40:52Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’ve lost track of how this, in and of itself, is not a solid reason to impeach. Obstruction of Justice is probably the ground - only problem is proving it; word against word, but it might be enough to get the process rolling, might depend on how Comey fronts the whole thing up … ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/94 "2017-05-31T22:48:15Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Are we talking about Presidential vs. Parliamentary democracies here? > > At least according to [this map from Wikipedia](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Forms_of_government.svg), most countries in the Americas use a Presidential system, with Canada being a notable exception. Africa and the former Soviet states seem to have a mix of Presidential and semi-Presidential systems, at least nominally. How democratic some of these “republics” are, and how comparable their governments are to that of the United States, is another matter. > > From the same source: European states mostly use a Parliamentary system, as do Japan, India and its neighbors (excluding China of course), Australia, and Canada. For goodness sake, evidence of President as being a definitive example of the US model is like saying a steering wheel is definitive evidence it must be a tractor. The US constitutional model is not followed - except apparently by Rwanda. And good luck to them with that. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/95 "2017-05-31T22:56:09Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > It’s a great reason to impeach, one of many. And Congress can impeach for anything they choose to call a high crime or misdemeanor, so they don’t need a great reason. But they do need the votes, and the votes will not be there as long as Trump keeps appointing right wing judges, and signing right wing legislation. Well they got a right wing Supreme Court justice, pretty much the GOP’s entire legislative agent is down the toilet now. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Her Mama gets all his shit if he croaks, so who knows? Wrong Mrs Trump; Ivanka’s mother Ivana was Trump’s first wife, and they divorced in the early 90s. _Melania_ is the incumbent wife of Trump, and presumably she would stand to inherit more as a widow than a divorcee. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/96 "2017-05-31T23:21:16Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > It’s a great reason to impeach, one of many. And Congress can impeach for anything they choose to call a high crime or misdemeanor, so they don’t need a great reason. But they do need the votes, and the votes will not be there as long as Trump keeps appointing right wing judges, and signing right wing legislation. Well they got a right wing Supreme Court justice, but pretty much the GOP’s entire legislative agent is down the toilet now. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Her Mama gets all his shit if he croaks, so who knows? Wrong Mrs Trump; Ivanka’s mother Ivana was Trump’s first wife, and they divorced in the early 90s. _Melania_ is the incumbent wife of Trump, and presumably she would stand to inherit more as a widow than a divorcee. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/97 "2017-06-01T01:59:24Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Wrong Mrs Trump; Ivanka’s mother Ivana was Trump’s first wife, and they divorced in the early 90s. _Melania_ is the incumbent wife of Trump, and presumably she would stand to inherit more as a widow than a divorcee. Thanks, I have no interest and consequently can’t keep them straight. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/98 "2017-06-01T15:37:08Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Obstruction of Justice is probably the ground It has a historic resonance to it as well, as Nixon veterans know. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/99 "2017-06-01T16:14:09Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise, but when it comes down to it I think she’ll be savvy enough to recognize it’s in the family’s best interests (financial & otherwise) for her father to go quietly. Enablers usually keep enabling. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450/100 "2017-06-01T17:09:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It is quite impossible that the Russian ambassador didn’t intend for his communications to be intercepted. Encryption that’s unbreakable even by the NSA exists and is readily available, and I can’t believe that a major national power like Russia would be so incompetent as to not use it in their intelligence service, especially not with the ambassador to their prime rival. If the Russian ambassador had wanted to send an unreadable message, he would have. The existence of practically unbreakable encryption does not in and of itself guarantee security. There are a variety of end-run methods in the spy trade (the most obvious being to plant spyware at either end of the communications channel to intercept content before encryption is applied and/or to intercept the encryption key itself). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-kushner-close-to-the-russia-pushed-for-firing-comey/787450.md?page=4)