# Jared Loughner’s Politics – What Matters and What Doesn’t? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043 "2011-01-10T00:13:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/61 "2011-01-10T16:34:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Have we established what caused the most recent shooting? > > Regards, > Shodan Maybe not definitively but my money is on fucking nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/62 "2011-01-10T16:35:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Have we established what caused the most recent shooting? I don’t believe we have. But it doesn’t follow that because Kennedy and Reagan were shot in time of unheightened rhetoric (though I’ve seen some evidence that there was intense anti-Kennedy sentiment in Dallas at that time), heightened rhetoric doesn’t have some responsibility for this incident. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/63 "2011-01-10T17:08:49Z")
[After Giffords Shooting, Other Threatened Politicians Decry Arizona’s History Of Extremism](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/10/extremism-in-arizona-victims-political-violence_n_806657.html) > [@](#): > > Mary Rose Wilcox, a member of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors in Arizona, was sitting in her car on Saturday when her husband called her back into their restaurant. Inside, he pointed to the television, where news stations were reporting that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and 20 others had been shot in what police are now calling an assassination attempt. > > Wilcox said she was devastated. She also said she was frightened: Wilcox herself was shot in 1997, while walking out of a board meeting, by a man who later said he was angry at her support for a baseball stadium tax. **The first Hispanic woman elected to the board, Wilcox, a Democrat, had been the target of talk-radio tirades telling Maricopa County residents to “take her out.”** ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/64 "2011-01-10T17:09:59Z")
Info is out that Loughner scared people in his junior college. They wrote they had a nut case who could be dangerous. The J.C. probably did not have sufficient mental health facilities or trained professionals to deal with him. He left a note at home saying he was going to assassinate Giffords. So it was even premeditated. Yet a nut like him could go buy an automatic weapon. He was a fan of right wing rhetoric. You can not say Paliin’s re-load, and targeting were at all responsible. But you also can not declare it was not a factor . Hopefully the court case will shed light on it. Politicians apparently see a connection and are calling for tamping down on the rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/65 "2011-01-10T17:38:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > ``` > Politicians apparently see a connection and are calling for tamping down on the rhetoric. > > ``` Does this include message boards, blogs, talk radio, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/66 "2011-01-10T17:40:43Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Info is out that Loughner scared people in his junior college. They wrote they had a nut case who could be dangerous. The J.C. probably did not have sufficient mental health facilities or trained professionals to deal with him. > He left a note at home saying he was going to assassinate Giffords. So it was even premeditated. > Yet a nut like him could go buy an automatic weapon. > He was a fan of right wing rhetoric. You can not say Paliin’s re-load, and targeting were at all responsible. But you also can not declare it was not a factor . Hopefully the court case will shed light on it. > Politicians apparently see a connection and are calling for tamping down on the rhetoric. To my mind, the last should be done regardless. Myself, from what I’ve read the fellow seems nutty as a fruitcake and had allegedly had a _personal_ grudge against Giffords dating back several years … which doesn’t change the fact that the exaggerated violent rhetoric of Palin and her ilk is a bad thing. “Surveyor’s marks” indeed! I myself am leaning towards the view that the two are quite unrelated. However, Palin still deserves contempt for using the rhetoric in the first place … and double contempt for outrageously lying about it after. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/67 "2011-01-10T18:11:52Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > So… have we figured out his politics yet? Or can this incident continue to be an uninformed effort to take down one’s political enemies? > > I’m seeing evidence that he was an anti-semetic, drug using, cult worshiping, mental case… how about we direct our scorn in those directions. lt also appears that she was just as much on the Daily Kos’ target list as Palin’s. All the hand-wringing about violence and divisiveness rings pretty hollow when people are really asking thinking “Pleeeeease let him have motivations that let me slur my political enemies!” Expect no accountability on the part of people presumptively making extreme attacks on said enemies, once his less-spinnable motivations are brought to light. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/68 "2011-01-10T18:57:49Z")
Perhaps posters in this thread might want to comment on this: [Journalists urged caution after Ft. Hood, now race to blame Palin after Arizona shootings](http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/journalists-urged-caution-after-ft-hood-now-race-blame-palin-afte) Seems a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/69 "2011-01-10T19:22:36Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > All the hand-wringing about violence and divisiveness rings pretty hollow when people are really asking thinking “Pleeeeease let him have motivations that let me slur my political enemies!” > > Expect no accountability on the part of people presumptively making extreme attacks on said enemies, once his less-spinnable motivations are brought to light. Can you please leave this type of remark out of this thread? I see no posts here expressing eagerness to slur political enemies or making extreme attacks based on presumed motivations. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/70 "2011-01-10T20:01:43Z")
Was there any evidence (yet) that Loughner even had any real clue about the actual policy provisions Giffords held? One of the OP’s premise’s was that Giffords was selected. I was wondering if she was selected merely because she was a politician (the closest one Loughner could reach). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/71 "2011-01-10T20:11:43Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > In any case, we need to get this particular fellow executed as soon as possible, and I’ll be very disappointed if any liberals come to his aid and try to get him life instead. I might even get enraged over it… Rig for rage, then, I guess. Capital punishment is wrong, always and everywhere. Even if he were provably sane, I’d refuse to consent to his execution. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/72 "2011-01-10T20:40:47Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Was there any evidence (yet) that Loughner even had any real clue about the actual policy provisions Giffords held? > > One of the OP’s premise’s was that Giffords was selected. > > I was wondering if she was selected merely because she was a politician (the closest one Loughner could reach). Some of the news links posted earlier (and pretty easily findable on line) show that Loughner may have been interested in Giffords as far back as 2007, and that he definitely did some planning to assassinate her. As others have demonstrated, his political thinking seems to be very disorganized and not rational, so you can’t really say this was ideological activism, or based on any recognizable political position. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/73 "2011-01-10T20:44:36Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Was there any evidence (yet) that Loughner even had any real clue about the actual policy provisions Giffords held? > > One of the OP’s premise’s was that Giffords was selected. > > I was wondering if she was selected merely because she was a politician (the closest one Loughner could reach). According to one article I read, he seems to have deliberately targeted her because she was dismissive of his (ranting) on their meeting a few years ago. In short, a personal grudge no doubt magnified by his mental problems. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/74 "2011-01-10T20:45:01Z")
I think this guy was just crazy as hell. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/75 "2011-01-10T20:52:58Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > He was a fan of right wing rhetoric. You can not say Paliin’s re-load, and targeting were at all responsible. But you also can not declare it was not a factor. You also can not declare that a Martian implant in his brain was not a factor. What exactly are you getting at other than hoping some right-wing ideology caused him to do this? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/76 "2011-01-10T21:37:35Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > So… have we figured out his politics yet? Or can this incident continue to be an uninformed effort to take down one’s political enemies? Well his friends referred to him as a left-wing nut-job but I’d prefer to think he was just a nut job. If it wasn’t the Safeway crowd (obviously not connected to the primary target) he would have shot up a professor from the college that evicted him plus a bunch of unrelated students. If it wasn’t a gun it would have been a homemade bomb. Crazy doesn’t have an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/77 "2011-01-11T01:28:44Z")
> [@villa](#): > > No they aren’t. You are correct they are not libertarian, but while _The Communist Manifesto_ is revolutionary, _Mein Kampf_ is reactionary. Actually not really. Adolf Hitler and his book were not a call for a return to Kaiserine monarchy and much of Hitler’s policies after he gained power has enormous discontinuity with not just the Weimar Republic but with the Kaiserreich especially his anti-Semitism (the Second Reich did not have pogroms, or any official discrimination against Jews and even the anti-Semites did not want to kill all the Jews). He was perhaps a revolutionary of the right or a nationalist revolutionary but he was definately a revolutionary. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/78 "2011-01-11T12:33:10Z")
And that is part of the issue - folks who believe they have had The Revelation that the rest of us don’t, may set out to overthrow The System but do not always go for some well thought-out existing alternative, but rather come up with their own crazy one, or just they just know they need to overthrow The System and they’ll figure out the details later. Or The System is just manipulating their grammar and they need to kill someone because she does not get it. So he probably peppered his ramblings with language from his various sources plus some of his own creative ideas, to match the mishmash buffet of conspiracies from left and right he fed upon. That may be also why his schoolmates say he first sounded like a left-wing nutjob: relative to what is mainstream in that community, irrational revolutionary ramblings may have contained “left wing”-sounding language; just as when I read that he was writing about the gold standard, that pressed my “right wing” button. Seeing the greater picture, we have just someone with no real coherent ideology beyond that The System is doing him wrong and he must hit back at it. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/79 "2011-01-11T16:31:53Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > You also can not declare that a Martian implant in his brain was not a factor. Martians don’t exist, at least not in present day. Hence, your statement is falsifiable. _Venus_, on the other hand…do we really know who lurks beneath those impenetrable clouds of 900F sulfuric acid?? I’d rather not think about it. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043/80 "2011-01-11T16:36:52Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And that is part of the issue - folks who believe they have had The Revelation that the rest of us don’t, may set out to overthrow The System but do not always go for some well thought-out existing alternative, but rather come up with their own crazy one, or just they just know they need to overthrow The System and they’ll figure out the details later. > > Or The System is just manipulating their grammar and they need to kill someone because she does not get it. > > So he probably peppered his ramblings with language from his various sources plus some of his own creative ideas, to match the mishmash buffet of conspiracies from left and right he fed upon. That may be also why his schoolmates say he first sounded like a left-wing nutjob: relative to what is mainstream in that community, irrational revolutionary ramblings may have contained “left wing”-sounding language; just as when I read that he was writing about the gold standard, that pressed my “right wing” button. Seeing the greater picture, we have just someone with no real coherent ideology beyond that The System is doing him wrong and he must hit back at it. I think you hit the nail on the head. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-loughner-s-politics-what-matters-and-what-doesn-t/567043.md?page=5)