# Jaws and Jurassic Park **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 2, 2005, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815 "2005-07-02T07:25:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/21 "2005-07-02T19:42:52Z")
Here’s Roger Ebert’s “Great Movies” [Review of Jaws](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20000820/REVIEWS08/8200301/1023) > [@](#): > > _You’re going to need a bigger boat."_ > > So the police chief famously informs the shark hunter, right after the first brief appearance of the man-eater in “Jaws.” It’s not simply a splendid line of dialogue, it’s an example of Steven Spielberg’s strategy all through the film, where the shark is more talked about than seen, and seen more in terms of its actions than in the flesh. There is a story that when producers Richard Zanuck and David Brown first approached Spielberg with an offer to direct the film of Peter Benchley’s best seller, he said he would do it on one condition: that the shark not be seen for the first hour. Viewing the movie’s 25th anniversary DVD, I was surprised to realize how little the shark is seen at all. > > In keeping the Great White offscreen, Spielberg was employing a strategy used by Alfred Hitchcock throughout his career. “A bomb is under the table, and it explodes: That is surprise,” said Hitchcock. “The bomb is under the table but it does not explode: That is suspense.” Spielberg leaves the shark under the table for most of the movie. And many of its manifestations in the later part of the film are at second hand: We don’t see the shark but the results of his actions. The payoff is one of the most effective thrillers ever made. And his original [Four star review](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19750101/REVIEWS/501010332/1023). And his [Much less enthusiastic review of Jurassic Park](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19930611/REVIEWS/306110302/1023) > [@](#): > > When young Steven Spielberg was first offered the screenplay for “Jaws,” he said he would direct the movie on one condition: That he didn’t have to show the shark for the first hour. By slowly building the audience’s apprehension, he felt, the shark would be much more impressive when it finally arrived. > > He was right. I wish he had remembered that lesson when he was preparing “Jurassic Park,” his new thriller set in a remote island theme park where real dinosaurs have been grown from long-dormant DNA molecules. The movie delivers all too well on its promise to show us dinosaurs. We see them early and often, and they are indeed a triumph of special effects artistry, but the movie is lacking other qualities that it needs even more, such as a sense of awe and wonderment, and strong human story values. > > … > > The plot to steal the embryos is handled on the level of a TV sitcom. The Knight character, an overwritten and overplayed blubbering fool, drives his Jeep madly through the storm and thrashes about in the forest. If this subplot had been handled cleverly - with skill and subtlety, as in a caper movie - it might have added to the film’s effect. Instead, it’s as if one of the Three Stooges wandered into the story. > > … > > “Jurassic Park” throws a lot of dinosaurs at us, and because they look terrific (and indeed they do), we’re supposed to be grateful. I have the uneasy feeling that if Spielberg had made “Close Encounters” today, we would have seen the aliens in the first 10 minutes, and by the halfway mark they’d be attacking Manhattan with death rays. > > Because the movie delivers on the bottom line, I’m giving it three stars. You want great dinosaurs, you got great dinosaurs. That pretty much sums it up for me. ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/22 "2005-07-02T20:19:43Z")
> [@](#): > > “Jurassic Park” throws a lot of dinosaurs at us, and because they look terrific (and indeed they do), we’re supposed to be grateful. I have the uneasy feeling that if Spielberg had made “Close Encounters” today, we would have seen the aliens in the first 10 minutes, and by the halfway mark they’d be attacking Manhattan with death rays. OMG! Is Ebert the new Nostradamus? That’s amazingly prescient. And I liked War of the Worlds 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/23 "2005-07-02T20:46:13Z")
I love both these movies. But given the choice between a movie with Robert Shaw and a movie without Robert Shaw, I’ll take the “with” any day. So I’d give “Jaws” the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/24 "2005-07-02T21:04:12Z")
Jaws is the better movie, by far. Nice and dark, and people aren’t as clearly identified with the ‘I’m-a-good-guy-mark-of-invulnerability’ Plus, it has the “Tuuuh-nuh. Tuuuh-nuh. Etc. :D” Nevertheless, I love dinosaurs too, and the greatness of the CG almost makes up for the difference. Almost. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/25 "2005-07-02T21:57:55Z")
The reason that the shark was kept off-screen through much of the movie was because the damn thing didn’t work. They built and tested it in a fresh water tank but the salt water was bit tougher on the gaskets and such. So really the genius there is that Speilberg was able to adapt and continue making the movie without the shark as much as possible. It wasn’t planned from the start not to show the shark. It just worked out that way. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/26 "2005-07-02T22:39:57Z")
Exactly, **Zebra**. I watched a (usually) silly show on Animal Planet called “Animal Icons” when it dealt with _Jaws_. When you hear how many days Bruce sank, broke down, etc, you are SHOCKED that Spielberg could get the movie done at all. Even he specualted during filming that he would never be trusted with another picture. They went weeks over schedule and way over budget. IIRC they were filming on Martha’s Vineyard through three seasons! ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/27 "2005-07-02T22:47:15Z")
I’ve got a lot under my belt about **Jaws**. I own two books on the making of the film. I dunno why, but the process gone through to create that movie is important to me. A few things to start off with. **Arwin** , that theme you quoted? John Williams won the Academy Award for the score to **Jaws**. ( His first Oscar ) It’s a little-known fact that if you watch the frozen lake battle sequence from the 1938 film by Sergei Eisenstein entitled **Alekandr Nevsky** ( yes, that is the correct spelling according to IMDB ), you will hear the title theme from **Jaws**. Note for note. It was written by Prokofiev, 37 years before John Williams “created” it. Homage is one thing. Theft is another. But I digress. Despite the remarks about Bruce The Shark ( so named because at the time, Bruce was Steven Spielberg’s attorney’s first name ), there is some real-live shark footage included in the movie. More than one dive was done off the Great Barrier Reef in Australia by Ron and Valerie Taylor. They had quite the rep as shark divers/hunters/photographers. There is real shark footage. There is real shark footage with a cage in the frame. Even at the time, the quality of graininess of that real footage didn’t quite cut perfectly with the staged shots of Bruce ( and, there were…4 Bruces IIRC ), but in the flow of the scenes and the energy of the moment, I think most audience members bought it as whole cloth. Only cynics or cameramen sat there going, " Shit, that’s either stock footage or live shark footage made for this film, cleverly intercut". Nevertheless, some of the shots are of genuine sharks. I think Jaws is a better film on most levels. ( obviously I’m a wee bit prejudiced ) I do tend to let my cynicism go when I sit down. I love movies, and go to them begging to be immersed into another world. The shots where Sam Neill and Laura Dern first see the large dinosaurs in the flesh and just a few hundred yards away is remarkable. It requires the leap of faith that all fantasy films require. I get goosebumps every time I see that- because if you buy the story, and buy their characters, then the moment of realization is very gratifying to witness. It is a dream come true- and how many adults toil their lives driven by a belief in something they know in their heart they can never prove absolutely… only to have it handed to them live? Performances aside, people get killed by sharks. Happened just last week, right? People don’t get killed by dinosaurs. The visceral response to the novel- and the film- are based on real life fears. I know I read the book when it came out. I did **not** go in the ocean for a few years after that. As of last summer, when I was swimming every day off the Jersey coastline around Seaside Heights, I looked for the telltale fin. I swear. It gets to ya. The script to **Jaws** doesn’t feel as sloppy as the script to **Jurassic Park**. The entire picture has a good classic rhythm to it. ( Verna Fields, no slouch of an editor… cut while they shot on location in Martha’s Vineyard . ) The film ran badly over budget. There was very serious talk of shutting it down and firing young Steven. Good thing they let it ride and waited to see how it went in previews. People screamed. People laughed. People screamed more. The rest, as they say, is history. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/28 "2005-07-02T22:51:38Z")
One other neato tidbit from the books I’ve got on **Jaws**. The scene where the townsfolk go out in their boats and kill what they think is “the Shark” and the Chief, Hooper and Quint are on the dock as little Alex Kintner’s mom walks up and slaps the Chief in the face? That is not a prop. That is a real shark, hunted down off the Florida coast and hand-escorted back on a chartered plane by a fellow named Teddy. It reeked and reeked, and was digusting to shoot around since the shark’s guts were piled up into it’s throat. ( The shark was hooked and hung at a sharp angle with the mouth tilted upwards, so the innards really did pile up just out of view of the cameras, but not the actors ). Teddy got his though. He was a stunt man, and is the man who is killed by The Shark in the inlet and dragged through the water screaming as the Chief’s young son watches in shocked horror. Fake blood gushing out of his mouth and all. 😃 ( God. Maybe I should watch it again tonight. Hmmm… ) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/29 "2005-07-02T23:20:59Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > (I didn’t find the Indianapolis dialogue memorable) Then there is no hope for you. I did not see Jurassic Park (I stopped seeing Spielberg movies after the loathesome E.T. and the horrible The Color Purple, with lapses for the Raiders movies, until Catch Me If You Can). so I can’t comment on it, but Jaws was and is a brilliant film. That’s part of why E.T. was such a disappointment. Jaws, Close Encounters and Raiders are all so good, and then the shitstain that is E.T. comes along. And of course, [Quint didn’t have to die](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=86045). ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/30 "2005-07-02T23:24:20Z")
I must be really screwed then. I saw Close Encounters as a Kid and didn’t like it either. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/31 "2005-07-02T23:51:51Z")
**Cartooniverse** , you had me at hello… 😃 Seriously, if I wasn’t already happily married, those two posts would have gotten you half way to home plate! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/32 "2005-07-02T23:56:19Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Then there is no hope for you. > > I did not see Jurassic Park (I stopped seeing Spielberg movies after the loathesome E.T. and the horrible The Color Purple, with lapses for the Raiders movies, until Catch Me If You Can). so I can’t comment on it, but Jaws was and is a brilliant film. That’s part of why E.T. was such a disappointment. Jaws, Close Encounters and Raiders are all so good, and then the shitstain that is E.T. comes along. > > And of course, [Quint didn’t have to die](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=86045). I didn’t want to re-open that old thread, but I must say I have no idea why you’d say this. Quint was hired to bring in the shark. Brody and Hooper went along as deck hands. At the time they left they dock, they had no idea whatsoever that Quint’s boat wouldn’t be sufficient. Two boats are not better than one, when it would mean that both boats are under-staffed. And of course, two boats are twice as expensive to operate as one. Plus, the reason Brody wanted to go along was because he felt it was his duty to be with Quint. I see no plot hole here whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/33 "2005-07-03T00:25:15Z")
Brody and Hooper were along as the charter party. Hooper was competent to serve as a deckhand; Brody wasn’t (he didn’t even know how to tie basic knots). They should have known that Quint’s boats wasn’t going to cut it because Hooper should’ve known from the bite radius how large the shark was. Hooper’s boat was already set up for a shark hunt; had they taken his boat they wouldn’t have had to transfer all of his equipment over, they wouldn’t have been stranded when Orca got attacked, they have multiple _radios_ so when Quint has his temper tantrum they’re not stuck, etc. Cost doesn’t really enter into it since Hooper owned his own boat. Since I posted that thread I’ve softened on it a little but I still think not taking Hooper’s boat along with them, while it makes for greater drama, would be a mistake IRL and is a plot hole in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/34 "2005-07-03T02:16:11Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Brody and Hooper were along as the charter party. Hooper was competent to serve as a deckhand; Brody wasn’t (he didn’t even know how to tie basic knots). They should have known that Quint’s boats wasn’t going to cut it because Hooper should’ve known from the bite radius how large the shark was. Hooper’s boat was already set up for a shark hunt; had they taken his boat they wouldn’t have had to transfer all of his equipment over, they wouldn’t have been stranded when Orca got attacked, they have multiple _radios_ so when Quint has his temper tantrum they’re not stuck, etc. Cost doesn’t really enter into it since Hooper owned his own boat. > > Since I posted that thread I’ve softened on it a little but I still think not taking Hooper’s boat along with them, while it makes for greater drama, would be a mistake IRL and is a plot hole in the movie. They didn’t take Hooper’s boat because they hired Quint to do the hunt because of his experience. He’s not about to take another man’s boat. So given that, why would Hooper want to tag along in a second boat? It makes no sense. They’d just all pile into the same boat. If Quint had caught the shark, just what was Hooper supposed to be able to do from a second boat? ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/35 "2005-07-03T02:25:28Z")
> [@wonder9](#): > > Wasn’t that the USS Indianapolis—sunk in 1945, not the Luistania, a casualty of the first world war? There’s a book my husband really liked, called _In Harm’s Way_, that tells the story of the _U.S.S. Indianapolis_ and the fate of the men Quint referred to. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/36 "2005-07-03T03:28:23Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Jaws is far superior. The acting, the pacing, the suspense… It’s all better. Jurassic Park had cute kids, a smart-alec math professor, a fat clownish bad guy, and other cartoon caricatures of characters. But it had way cool CGI stuff in it. Jurassic Park has great SCENES: - The velociraptors hunting the children in the kitchen - T-Rex’s first appearance - The dinosaur stampede - The brachiasaurus “reveal” Those scenes match the very best Jaws scenes. However, Jaws really has no weak points as a movie, and has a better structure of characters, with the three main protagonists providing a dramatic triangle of characterization. Jurassic Park is, by comparison, something of a mess in terms of characters, and while they’re all competent thespians nobody matches the triumvirate of Scheider, Dreyfuss, and Shaw. I also though the other weakness of Jurassic Park was that the body count wasn’t nearly high enough. I mean, let’s be honest; the reason you go to see a dinosaur movie is to see dinosaurs eat people. But the dinosaurs only ate five people in Jurassic Park - Nedry, the game warden, the lawyer, Samuel L. Jackson, and the hapless worker at the beginning. Why did B.D. Wong the Scientist (the shrink from Law and Order) survive? He was eaten in the book; would it have been that hard to have T-Rex gobble him up? Why did Richard Attenborough’s character, also eaten in the book, survive? The guy who was working on the sick triceratops could have been eaten, too. Five dino-meals was a shamefully low level of carnage. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/37 "2005-07-03T03:57:38Z")
I don’t think Hoopers boat had the barrels and the whole you go into the cage/cage goes into the water/sharks in the water/our shark plan didn’t work out so well. Also since Quint is a copy of Captain Ahab, I think that, yes, he does have to die. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/38 "2005-07-03T03:58:55Z")
And one more thing **Jaws** has a naked girl. **Jurrassic Park**? No naked girls! Advatage **Jaws.** ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/39 "2005-07-03T04:42:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I also though the other weakness of Jurassic Park was that the body count wasn’t nearly high enough. I mean, let’s be honest; the reason you go to see a dinosaur movie is to see dinosaurs eat people. But the dinosaurs only ate five people in Jurassic Park - Nedry, the game warden, the lawyer, Samuel L. Jackson, and the hapless worker at the beginning. Oh, come on. Jaws has an even smaller amount of deaths. Chrissy, the kid, Shaw, and the dog. 😛 I may be forgetting one, but just one. I agree with the naked chick though. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815/40 "2005-07-03T04:48:50Z")
But in Jaws, 1. The shark eats one of the main characters, which counts extra. 2. There’s only one shark. I mean, even a big ol’ fish can only be asked to do so much. In Jurassic Park, there are hundreds of dinosaurs, at least a dozen or two of which are dangerous. The dinosaurs are much lazier than the shark. 3. The shark’s handiwork is prominently displayed in Jaws. There’s lots of blood, and Quint’s death in particular is fantastically gruesome. Jurassic Park is comparatively bloodless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaws-and-jurassic-park/310815.md?page=3)