# Jazz is crap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2000, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385 "2000-01-12T04:03:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dark\_Wing\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f0a364/32.png) [@Dark\_Wing\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Wing_Duck)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/1 "2000-01-12T04:03:00Z")
Jazz is crap. It is the expressively stunted, coldly artificial meandering of narcissistic psuedo-intellectual poseurs. It is to music as flatulence is to oratory. I have listened. Oh, yes, I have listened. Hours I’ve spent by the radio, as deejays half-comatose with cool resurrected long-dead flugelhornists from godforsaken, Stygian obscurity to weigh their artistic merits with the air of theologians discussing the Dead Sea Scrolls, their ponderous dissertations punctuated only by the droning of a single musical track, variations on nothing, repeated endlessly - for I, unswayed by the deejay’s smooth, passionless voice, unbowed before his vast, arcane knowledge, can hear that he’s playing the same damn thing over and over. Jazz lovers, awake! Open your ears to the glories of Brahms, of Metallica, of Tanya Tucker for god’s sake if that’s all the taste you have, lest your hearts shrivel to the size and shape of raisins floating aimlessly, endlessly in the soggy bran flakes of your souls. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/2 "2000-01-12T04:36:00Z")
Oh dear. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/3 "2000-01-12T05:17:00Z")
Pearls before swine. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/4 "2000-01-12T05:22:00Z")
ROTFLMAO! I agree, but I do like Benny Goodman and that sort of thing. I hate the stuff that’s just tuneless booping and beeping. Let me know when you’re done tuning up! * * * Marge: “You know, Homer, it’s very easy to criticize.” Homer: “Fun, too!” ---
**Author:** ![ChrisCTP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@ChrisCTP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisCTP)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/5 "2000-01-12T06:38:00Z")
Y’know…I think I’ll just leave the flogging to Saxface and Ukelele Ike… * * * “Fester, fester, fester…rot, rot, rot.” ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/6 "2000-01-12T06:51:00Z")
DarkWing, I’d sentence you to a lifetime of Carpenters tunes, but there’s probably something in the Geneva Convention banning that type of abuse. Seriously, too bad you didn’t grok jazz but it’s not so important what you listen to but that you listen to something. If jazz ain’t what takes you there, the musical vineyard is overflowing with many other wonderful things. Go find what makes your heart sing, no pun intended. Just tiptoe out, okay? The jam session’s started and I don’t want to miss a note! your humble TubaDiva who listens to lots of stuff but does like jazz best ---
**Author:** ![Jorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@Jorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/7 "2000-01-12T07:24:00Z")
Let’s see… Louie Armstrong vrs. Metallica ? _Take Five_ vrs. _Take No Prisoners_ ? Rahsaan Roland Kirk vrs. William Shatner ? Lionel Hampton vrs. Lionel Richie ? We can all play this game. C’mon, Tuba’s right, man, just listen to your chosen muse… & no use comparing apples and oranges; just eat the dang fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/8 "2000-01-12T07:40:00Z")
Let;'s be clear about this. The stuff they CALL modern jazz, which is really sappy new age music with nary an iota of soul, sucks goat ass. As for the classic stuff, well, I’d rather listen to anything by John Coltrane, Miles Davis, John Zorn and some cool Big Band bee-bop suff than 99.86% of the new music of any genre out there. * * * Yer pal, Satan _ **First Place** Most Popular Poster of the 20th Century Competition As overseen by Coldfire_ ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/9 "2000-01-12T09:11:00Z")
What the hell is this? Why begrudge people something they like? If they like Jazz, if they want to _wallow_ in the most amazingly disgusting jazzy jazz, so what? If you hate it, don’t frickin’ listen to it. What - do you corner the market in good musical taste? Newsflash - no one does. We all listen to what we like. Is this a coincidence, or did you see the thread about Classical music (it also discusses jazz) on General Questions? ( [http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/004781.html](http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/004781.html) ) I started it, wondering why people hate some forms of music so much that they have to be really annoying and pissy about the fact that other people listen and enjoy it. Now, of course, I am hoping and assuming you are being at least partially tongue-in-cheek, because it’s not that damned serious of a subject. Or it shouldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/10 "2000-01-12T11:20:00Z")
Well, I’m not exactly into Jazz music. However, I do recognise the talent of the musicians playing it. Some of the greatest players for any instrument you can think of are jazz musicians. ## Having said all that, “Take Five” by Dave Brubeck is one of the most brilliant tunes ever writtenm whether you like jazz or not. It’s as undeniably classic as Beethovens 9th is. * * * Coldfire: second to none but Satan. * * * “You know how complex women are” - Neil Peart, Rush (1993) ---
**Author:** ![BlockHead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@BlockHead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlockHead)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/11 "2000-01-12T11:29:00Z")
Steely Dan is sort of jazzy and I’ve always liked them. Who knows though, people flock to hear musicians like Billy Ray Cyrus and his Achy Breaky Heart. Is it any wonder that some of the garbage that passes as music is so easily absorbed by the masses? It’s called appealing to the lowest common denominator. ---
**Author:** ![Bucky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Bucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bucky)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/12 "2000-01-12T13:47:00Z")
I like jazz, although I avoid the bebop wing (no, not a new dance). I would like jazz a lot more if jazz folk stopped saying that they werre “the only original American art form,” (sometimes they’ll say that there are two, I forget the other). I think that’s my view of the pretensiousness of jazz–that and claiming that it’s intellectual. other American art forms that are original? Or with at least as good of claims to that as jazz) Comic books/graphic novels Movies Science Fiction Rock and Roll Hip Hop/Rap Westerns Detective stories of the Private Eye kind pretty much any genre of television (I know, some of that’s stretching the “art” thing) Marching band music Tap dancing there’s probably many more… Bucky ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/13 "2000-01-12T14:07:00Z")
Oh, dear, oh, dear . . . I couldn’t respond till now because Ukelele Ike is lying here with Xs over his eyes and I can’t find a pulse, and Sax is crouched over there in the corner like Karen Black at the end of “Trilogy of Terror.” Well, I am not a jazz fan—I mean, I can listen to it and sometimes like it, but I don’t really seek it out. But “crap?” I sure don’t like all of it—the earlier the better, as far as I’m concerned (I look askance at post-1935 jazz). As soon as I can get some vital signs from Ike and Sax, I’ll have them get back to you—ooo, one of Ike’s Xs just turned into a minus sign, I think that’s good . . . ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/14 "2000-01-12T14:13:00Z")
And what about that “scat” singing? It’s just a little less mindless than rap. Oh yeah, my son could scat…but then he learned to talk. And don’t you think the name of that “art” form is more than mere coincidence? Miles Davis is to good music what Taco Bell is to gourmet cuisine. I’ve seen that pretender on two occasions. All he did was wander aimlessly about the stage while the band vamped, then he’d stop and blat out _one_ flat note. Then he’d wander some more. Talk about a con job on a gullible crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/15 "2000-01-12T15:05:00Z")
I don’t remotely get or understand scat or the kind of jazz where it sounds like random notes being played on 5 different instruments. I also can understand that it may be my fault as much as the music’s. But, I definitely dig solid horn-based music, big band stuff, and a lot of the old-time music. Maybe it’s just the new songs and genre of jazz that makes me think a cat is being strangled. * * * You can feel free to call me Mr. Tied for 26th place on the favorite poster’s list. ---
**Author:** ![SaxFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SaxFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaxFace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/16 "2000-01-12T15:18:00Z")
I’m…trying…to…breathe… It’s one thing if you criticize the actual music being played. But if you bash an entire genre of extreme spectrums of style, structure and personal taste, you’re asking for trouble, bub. There are people who consider Kenny G to be _jazz_ for crying out loud. The funny thing about jazz is that to appreciate it, you have to understand it. So maybe there is some pretense to it in that you actually have to _think_ when listening to it. It’s not some boring bimbo brain candy - there’s substance (which is more than I can say for most of the tripe on the radio). Also, to play jazz, if s/he wants to make it sound interesting, a musician must have a total understanding of music theory - scales, harmonies, chord progressions, etc. So, by calling jazz “crap”, you’re calling some of the best and most intelligent musicians on the planet “crap”. Not very bright of you. Contrary to popular belief, jazz is structured - it’s not, “play whatever” or “make it up as you go along”. I don’t know how much music theory you know, but the basic premise is that the musicians follow the chord progressions of a song. That never changes. The tone, notes, rythym etc. change (especially in solos). The better the musician, the more creative and innovative the music. In classical music, the musicians follow sheet music. In jazz, the musicians play what they have in their heads (or, more poetically, their hearts). Do you have any idea how difficult it is to think of the correct progression and notes in an instant? And to have other musicians dependent on you to play in tune and keep up with the tempo? If not, don’t critize jazz. Jazz is complex. If your brain isn’t open to understanding it, please don’t force it. The difference between you and me is that I judge music on the music - I like Brahms and I like Metallica. But Tanya Tucker? Sorry, I can hear three cords when the subway doors close. As for the moron who dissed Miles Davis, I have just one thing to say: Miles was a musician, not an entertainer. * * * Formerly unknown as “Melanie” ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/17 "2000-01-12T17:09:00Z")
And how about that god damn ice cream, huh? What are people THINKING of when they eat that stuff? It’s so cold! It drips! It’s too darm sweet! Why don’t they have a nice warm cheeseburger, or some tuna casserole, or pheasant under glass? THAT I can understand. THAT makes sense to me! I say we take Ben and Jerry, and Mr. Daz, and Ms. Breyer, and all thouse other losers and ship 'em off to Managua, Nicaragua! I’m telling you, ice cream is to haute cuisine like Humphrey Bogart is to Norman Rockwell! Glad we got THAT cleared up. * * * Uke ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/18 "2000-01-12T17:29:00Z")
Calm down, Ike . . . Take another pill . . . That’s right, I’ll let you hold Sax’s sax for awhile, she’s calmed down now . . . ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/19 "2000-01-12T17:55:00Z")
I can hold my OWN sax, Eve, thank you very much…I WILL have another one of those pills, though. Mmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnice…where d’you say you get these, again? ---
**Author:** ![fuzzy-wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b38774/32.png) [@fuzzy-wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzy-wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385/20 "2000-01-12T17:58:00Z")
hmmmm…jazz is in the eyes of the beholder * * * “Do or do not, there is no try” - Yoda _You wanna know something about me…ask me…not my friends…_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jazz-is-crap/4385.md?page=2)