Jazz is crap

The BBQ Pit
21

Ok, for those of you who weren’t quite sure how to take that diatribe, let me remove my tongue from my cheek for a moment.

I personally don’t “get” jazz. I find almost all of it boring or incomprehensible. I can tell as well as anyone else that the best jazz musicians are the technical equals of the best classical musicians. Quite a few are accomplished in both genres; Wynton Marsalis is one. On that basis I have to conclude that I’m missing something. In fact, my usual reaction to a jazz piece is, “those guys obviously know what they’re doing, but I don’t have a clue.”

I don’t think that any form of jazz has the same expressive power, in terms of the range of emotional responses it can elicit from its listeners, as certain other forms of music. Of course, I am not in the best position to make this judgment. However, I would say that the classical style of Haydn and Mozart, which I do appreciate and enjoy, is inferior to, say, romanticism, and for the same reason. (I’m aware that I’m going to piss off a whole new bunch of people here.) I feel the same way about individual instruments. I think the violin, for example, is superior to the clarinet, simply because you can do so much with the violin, while the clarinet is pretty much a one-trick pony. (I played clarinet for years; never touched the violin.)

The quasi-religious fervor of jazz aficianados may be warranted; once again, I’m not in a position to judge. But I do feel there is a lot of affectation in jazz culture. Why is everyone involved with jazz so damned cool, to the point of near-catatonia? You never hear a bubbly jazz deejay, any more than you hear a laid-back classic rock deejay.

SaxFace, you’re an excellent apologist for your music. You have certainly increased my intellectual, if not my visceral, apprecation of jazz. Feel free to elaborate even further.

Finally, I hate to have to say this, but the OP was intended mainly as humor. Guess I better not quit my day job.

22

Hey!
Managua, Nicaragua is a wonderful spot!
There’s coffee and bananas, and the temperature’s hot.

23

You’ve worked really hard to play a joke, then. . . and for what purpose, outside of pissing people off?

It’s no secret there’s a lot of jazz fans around here . . . this is akin to going to a bar over by Yankee Stadium and saying, “man, those Yankees, they really suck.”

Sounds to me like an invitation to fight . . . gee, isn’t there another word for that . . . oh yeah, trolling.

your humble TubaDiva

24

My wife bought Miles Davis and Coltrane and I listened to it enthusiastically while driving 1000 over four days. I listened hard because I often end up loving music that I hate on the first listen.

I don’t get it at all. In fact, I hate it. Random bleeps of the horn peppered throughout “a few of my favorite things” does not, to my ear, sound like music.

I don’t object to others listening to it. But what I strongly object to is snobbery by those that do. My wife refers to it as “adult music.” as opposed to what? “rubber ducky?” By Ernie.

Of those that I know who claim to like this music, only one actually listens to it. It is like poetry. Many claim to love it because it sounds so cool to say that you love it. But how many actually experience it with joy?

25

TubaDiva, I’m new here, but isn’t this the Pit? And give me some credit - at least I’m a reasonably articulate troll. :slight_smile:

26

Mr. Z:

Not that many, actually. The market for jazz recordings (aside from crossover, Kenny g-style crap) is even smaller than the market for “classical.”

[shrugs] Jerry Garcia said the following about his own music, but it applies to jazz as well: “Not everybody likes licorice, but people who like licorice REALLY like licorice.”

Hey, and “My Favorite Things” is damn melodic, for Coltrane. If you didn’t like that, then stay FAR away from A LOVE SUPREME and IMPRESSIONS.

Uke

27

WHEW!!!

I thought this thread was about basketball. I guess I’ll go take off my ass kicking shoes.

Resume.

>^,^<
KITTEN
Fluff yer hair Beula, I’s feelin frisky - M.S.

28

Well I love Jerry, so I understand that it is just a matter of taste. I am really just pissed that my wife refers to it as “Adult Music” like she is in some special club.

But then, I am a philistine.

29

Adult Music? I’ve liked it since I was a child.

I must admit part of the problem with jazz is all the attitude some practitioners have brought with them. From the claims that it’s “America’s classical music” to “the only true American art form” to “it’s a black thing, you wouldn’t understand,” some people have taken something really easy and tried their damndest to make it really hard.

Why? Beats the hell out of me. I guess there’s some of us that aren’t happy unless they feel superior to something or someone. They miss the whole point.

This attitude where jazz is concerned is nothing new and started when jazz stopped being played primarily for dancers . . . the dawn of the Bop Era.

And some players are examples of great musicians with bad attitudes . . . like, oh, Stan Kenton, Artie Shaw . . . Miles Davis, to name some of the bigger PITAs on the scene.

Bottom line: listen to what you like. Forget the hype.

your humble TubaDiva

30

Dark Wing Duck: I have to admit, you’re improving my vocabulary by using some those prolix words.

Ok, let me just rehash a couple stories of my own.

I’ve been playing musical instruments for my whole life but didn’t listen to jazz (even though I played it in high school) until I was 20. Why? It didn’t appeal to me and I didn’t “get it”.

My 21 year old roommate, Kristofer, is a hip hop junkie. Since I hog the turntable, he was forced to listen to jazz and expressed an interest in learning more. I started him out on Charlie Parker and Dave Brubek. He loved them and knows all of their songs now. But when I played him Monk he said, “I’m not ready for that yet.” Pretty insightful for a gansta.

The point is that jazz isn’t for everyone, just like TubaDiva said. But don’t you think the Backstreet Boys have pretty big egos? Artists (painters, sculptors) have always had a high and mighty ostentatious reputation. I prefer to judge all artists on their work, not their personalities.

As far as emotional drive - dude, “The Very Thought of You” can make me cry even if I hear it in the subway. I feel more connected to jazz songs, probably because they are creatively sentimental - without cheese or too much sap. The raw emotion (especially in a saxophone) that some musicians can convey breaks my heart or makes me burst with joy and sometimes I have to remind myself to breathe. I am a hardened criminal and have never felt so much emotion in any other genre of music.

I can assure you that all of the jazz loving people I know are rude, loud and totally un-cool. (Except for TubaDiva, of course)
(Sorry Uke, us sax players have to stick together and stay ugly.)

Formerly unknown as “Melanie”

31

I am a professional music educator and performer (indeed in the jazz realm). I can say that although I am quite fond of very avant music, like Varese, Cecil Taylor, Eric Dolphy, etc. I have found much of Miles Davis’ work disappointing. The live footage I’ve seeen backs up what the earlier poster said about his live shows too. To me he seems to be an arrogant, hate-filled, at best mediocre player. While I concede that I do enjoy some of his early jazz-rock work (like Bitches Brew), I think he was mostly “at the right place at the right time” many times.

only an opinion of

Sweet Basil

32

If by “crap” you mean “the heart and root of all good things present in today’s musical culture,” then I would wholeheartedly agree with you.

Satan: When you said

, what exactly were you referring to? Surely not Medeski Martin and Wood, for if you were, then we would have to throw down.

The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.

33

“Watcha gonna do when there ain’t no jazz?
Where ya gonna step when you’re fulla pep?
Howya gonna get recreation
When they take away syncopation?
Watcha gonna do with those doggone blues everybody has?
Won’t the nights be long and weary—
Slower than the doggoned Erie!
Watcha gonna do with your ever-lovin’ dearie
When there ain’t no jazz?”

34

Not to hijack this thread with a discussion of Miles Davis, but nearly all his work has some meaning, even if you can’t particularly get into some part of it.

Don’t confuse the music (which was mostly great) with the man (who shoulda spent time in the penitentiary).

In fact, that’s maybe part of the problem here, the stuff around the music detracts from it. By that I mean musicians who are great players but sorry specimens of humanity . . . folks that follow musical trends because they think it’s what they “should” listen to (not for the sake of the music but because it’s fashionable . . . or not) . . . people that read criticism before they listen to the music . . . critics that wish in their secret heart of hearts they were players and so filet everybody they hear that makes them jealous . . . a marketing system that lets beancounters make artistic decisions.

Chuck all that useless shit over the side. Use your ears and your heart. Find what works for you.

your humble TubaDiva

35

Well, that would definitely be Mr. Art Tatum.

36

Rousseau:

Heaven forbid! No, I was referring to the likes of Kenny G and his evil ilk.

Yer pal,
Satan

First Place
Most Popular Poster of the 20th Century Competition
As overseen by Coldfire

37

I think I “got” the joke in the OP.
Seemed to be making fun of those smooth-talking, retro-Hep Cats that probably still own a black turtle-neck and beret.
(what’s an unemployed beat-poet to do? … Jazz DJ?)

I think some of the “classic” jazz does have it’s great moments. Unfortunately, it seems to me, that they often make you endure a good bit of way-over-my-head-noise to earn those moments. (sorta’ like the way that some classical music mixes 1-part beautiful and profound with 5-parts fucking boredom)

So how 'bout “jazz/fusion”?
oops … somebody fan the purists. Anybody know CPR?

I know that it’s sort of a (dated) gray area, and lines are fuzzy on where it starts and stops, but I think it’s an enjoyable compromise. (if you don’t mind being considered an ignorant, sell-out bastard, by several genres)

I enjoy “jazz” by Herbie Hancock, Billy Cobham, George Duke, Jeff Lorber and Weather Report…to name a few.
And If I were going to push it even farther away from classic, and more toward what “sends” me (and still call it sorta’-jazz) I’d go with Al DiMeola, Jean Luc Ponte, and Scarlet Rivera. (Scarlet Fever, Electric Rendevous …like those) I’ll listen to anything they want to play.

Anyway, that’s my take on it.
… well what do you expect from a guy that digs through the clearance bins and sucks CheeZ WhiZ straight out of the can?

38

One would wonder where Vince Gauraldi falls in opine around here. Esspecially, since I really enjoy much of his work. (I admit, it is probably limited to his better know, but his better known stuff is still gold to my ears. :slight_smile: )

(Need to steal my brothers collection of his CD’s.)

>>Being Chaotic Evil means never having to say your sorry…unless the other guy is bigger than you.<<

—The dragon observes

39

That’s the problem. Go hear it live. I agree that the jazz playlist on most radio stations is, well, bo-ring.

40

Moron, huh, SapFace?

Sorry, toots, but Miles Davis is the worst type of poseur: so untalented that the terminally hip, beboppin’ gorks who “dig” such drivel believe him to be so far beyond the pale of ordinary jazz musicians (who’s music can’t be differentiated from the average garage band tuning up) as to be a musical genius. “Duh, I got no clue what the hell that cat’s doin’, but since it’s Miles doin’ it, it must be cool.”

I believe Miles originally actually played that horn, but his last pathetic efforts were less mellifluous that the dulcet tones of the average cat fight. He would wander around the stage, bend over so that the horn was between his knees, bleat a random note, then stand in awe of himself.

Fooey. If you can actually say you enjoyed that tripe, well, you’ve been had.

To quote Marlin Brando, “He worshipped at the altar of his own narcissism.”