# JCS Chairman Gen. Pace not to be reapponted. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 9, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340 "2007-06-09T02:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/1 "2007-06-09T02:44:08Z")
[This just in.](http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/08/gates.pace/index.html) The operation of the war in Iraq/Afghanistan is under the command of a Navy admiral. Now a Navy Admiral will be the military services’ advisor to the president, except for the so called “Iraq war czar” whose exact status is still in the formative stage. Is this a good idea? What do you suppose will be the effect on the Army and Marine Corps which are the branches with all the people doing the actual fighting? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/2 "2007-06-09T02:47:11Z")
Oh wow, on face that sounds like the dumbest idea ever. The Navy is already way out of touch with the reality of modern warfare. We are deficient in fighting insurgents due to lack of intelligence, and we’ve been using naval weapons to use a sledghammer where a scalpel would be more effective. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/3 "2007-06-09T03:00:44Z")
What I wonder is how much this was influenced by the decision of Gen. Pace to submit a letter of support of Scooter Libby for his sentencing. I personally thought that for a serving officer to do so was highly improper. I imagine that he would have gotten some highly pointed questions on that issue in his confirmation hearing. As to the appointment of an admiral, rather than an army, air force or Marine officer, I doubt it is particularly significant. There is a tradition of rotating the office among the services, and it has been a long time since there has been a navy man in the post. These days, with joint service being so significant and the chairman not being not in direct operational command (the theater commanders like CENTCOM are), it shouldn’t matter much. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/4 "2007-06-09T03:29:40Z")
[Pentagon Briefing Video](http://pentagontv.feedroom.com/?skin=oneclip&fr_story=5e6936a8d1217434f0e2610242b896cbdeea839f&rf=ev&autoplay=true) June 08, 2007 Over and over again, Gates says we need to avoid looking backward. That would cause a “divisive ordeal.” Still, he also says that support for the Iraq war remains high in the senate. Gates claims Mullen’s major concern is the state of the Army. I haven’t seen much of Gates on video, but he seemed quite subdued today. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/5 "2007-06-09T04:26:35Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Over and over again, Gates says we need to avoid looking backward. That would cause a “divisive ordeal”. [/QUOTE] There aren’t enough :rolleyes: . ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/6 "2007-06-09T05:14:41Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Over and over again, Gates says we need to avoid looking backward. That would cause a “divisive ordeal.” [/QUOTE] He might have something there. The administration is quite capable of causing divisive ordeals without outside help. Gates now has a team of his choosing in place. Maybe that’s the real reason Pates is leaving. That was a suggestion on one of the news telecasts tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/7 "2007-06-09T06:13:59Z")
Good riddance to an appalling homophobe. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/8 "2007-06-09T06:15:09Z")
So does the War Czar jerk the JCS’s chain of comman, or vice versa? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/9 "2007-06-09T11:15:32Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Over and over again, Gates says we need to avoid looking backward. That would cause a “divisive ordeal.” [/QUOTE] This Administration is full of manly men who can stand up to anything except a few questions about what they’ve been doing on our dime. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/10 "2007-06-09T20:39:28Z")
Everything is under control, except for the Democat congress. According to CNN Headline News (not web cite), when asked about Pace Bush said that he wasn’t renamed because of the “poisonous atmosphere” in the Democratic controlled congress. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/11 "2007-06-09T20:46:26Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Everything is under control, except for the Democat congress. According to CNN Headline News (not web cite), when asked about Pace Bush said that he wasn’t renamed because of the “poisonous atmosphere” in the Democratic controlled congress. [/QUOTE] Why would this Congress be any readier to confirm Mullen than to reconfirm Pace? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/12 "2007-06-09T21:09:16Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Why would this Congress be any readier to confirm Mullen than to reconfirm Pace? [/QUOTE] [Peter Pace’s Political Gaming on Libby and Gays Ends His Reign](http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/002174.php) > [@](#): > > the senior echelons of the U.S. military are supposed to be non-political while still in uniform. Pace went over a big red line in his letter of support in Libby’s case – and all of his enemies in and out of the uniformed services have pulled their knives out. > … > In a similar political spat, Pete Pace was brown-nosing the President (he thought) in his condemnation of homosexuals as immoral. Again, this is another political issue he should have remained out of Then there’s the whole issue of Pace being a spineless lacky of Don Rumsfeld. Mullen has none of these problems. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/13 "2007-06-09T21:12:06Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] There aren’t enough :rolleyes: . [/QUOTE] Depends on what you’re rolling your eyes at. I think the likely explanation here is that Gates wants to sack the guy and put his own man in, and this was his way of allowing the General to save face. I doubt very seriously that he’s afraid of a Senate confirmation hearing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/14 "2007-06-09T21:13:17Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Depends on what you’re rolling your eyes at. [/QUOTE] At the idea that “we need to avoid looking backward.” How else can we learn from our mistakes? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/15 "2007-06-09T21:16:52Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] [Peter Pace’s Political Gaming on Libby and Gays Ends His Reign](http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/002174.php) Then there’s the whole issue of Pace being a spineless lacky of Don Rumsfeld. Mullen has none of these problems. [/QUOTE] Yeah but in a “poisonous atmosphere” does it make any difference who Bush puts up? According to the report in the _Los Angeles Times_ Mullin is expected to be confirmed easily. If he is do you think GW will retract is slur about the “Democrat poisonous atmosphere?” And what do you mean spineless lackey? Isn’t he the leader of the few and the proud? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/16 "2007-06-09T21:49:07Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] And what do you mean spineless lackey? [/QUOTE] That’s just an impression I’ve gathered from the many joint news conferences the two have done. Pace always seemed subservient to me. I suppose a collection of cites could be gathered to cast the General as an independent go-getter, but that’s not the impression I’ve gotten of the man. I doubt that I’m alone in that. The ‘poisonous atmosphere’ won’t be quite so hard on Mullen, because critics of the way the invasion’s been run will have fewer concrete examples of things Mullen’s screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/17 "2007-06-10T01:20:38Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] > [@](#): > > And what do you mean spineless lackey? That’s just an impression I’ve gathered from the many joint news conferences the two have done. Pace always seemed subservient to me. I suppose a collection of cites could be gathered to cast the General as an independent go-getter, but that’s not the impression I’ve gotten of the man. I doubt that I’m alone in that. [/quote] Read my sentence following the above quoted one. > [@](#): > > The ‘poisonous atmosphere’ won’t be quite so hard on Mullen, because critics of the way the invasion’s been run will have fewer concrete examples of things Mullen’s screwed up. My impression of his comment was that no matter what he does it’s wrong, poor guy. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/18 "2007-06-15T20:20:51Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] My impression of his comment was that no matter what he does it’s wrong, poor guy. [/QUOTE] [Pace says he was fired:](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070615/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_63;_ylt=AoG9c7bF521CdEG4O40ZMIsE1vAI) > [@](#): > > Pace, responding to a question from the audience after he spoke at the Joint Forces Staff College in Norfolk, Va., on Thursday evening, said he first heard that his expected nomination for a second two-year term was in jeopardy in mid-May. Defense Secretary Robert Gates on June 8 announced Pace was being replaced. > > “One thing that was discussed was whether or not I should just voluntarily retire and take the issue off the table,” Pace said, according to a transcript released Friday by his office at the > Pentagon. > > “I said I could not do that for one very fundamental reason,” which is that no soldier or Marine in > Iraq should "think — ever — that his chairman, whoever that person is, could have stayed in the battle and voluntarily walked off the battlefield. > > “That is unacceptable as a leadership thing, in my mind,” he added. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/19 "2007-06-15T20:26:32Z")
Kathleen Parker, who I used to like until she went all Dennis Miller after 9/11, says it is all the Clinton’s fault (imagine that). [Article here.](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/KathleenParker/2007/06/13/general_paces_collateral_damage) > [@Kathleen Parker](#): > > One doesn’t need much of a running start to make the leap to Sen. Hillary Clinton, who also sits on the Armed Services Committee and who, you may have heard, is running for commander in chief. No one benefits more from Pace’s removal than Clinton, who would have had to vote for or against the man and be stuck with a position that could hurt her. > … > And the Clintons, as always, bear watching. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340/20 "2007-06-16T01:43:40Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] That’s just an impression I’ve gathered from the many joint news conferences the two have done. Pace always seemed subservient to me. I suppose a collection of cites could be gathered to cast the General as an independent go-getter, but that’s not the impression I’ve gotten of the man. I doubt that I’m alone in that. [/QUOTE] Harry Reid agrees that Pace came up short in giving GW the best military advice. And I also agree. My question about how could he be a spineless lackey was based on his being a Marine and Marines are never spineless lackeys, are they? Pace either thought that adding 20something thousand troops would make a difference or he didn’t want to contradict the Decider. I think for that alone he failed. It seems to me that all of the high military officers should have told GW in plain English that unless the Iraqi government somehow brought the different factions together the addition of troops was nothing but adding targets. They may have done that but if they did, they caved, saluted and said “Yes, Sir.” when the decision went against them. While the politicians and generals dither and hem and haw and wait for September, people are dying and nobody in our government seems to take that seriously. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jcs-chairman-gen-pace-not-to-be-reapponted/407340.md?page=2)