# JD Salinger RIP **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789 "2010-01-28T18:06:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/61 "2010-01-29T03:41:19Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > The opposite. Publisher makes money, editor has to make sense of that shit. I know people in the book business. It’s way, way devolved at this point. Anything aimed at people that actually read cannot _possibly_ make money; it’s been written right out of the business model. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/62 "2010-01-29T03:42:27Z")
As I always say, there’s a lot of humor in it, which many people don’t see because they’ve had it crammed down their throat as something Totally Deep and Meaningful. It actually has a very IRreverent tone, but it’s too often propagandized as needing a reverential approach. “That guy Morrow was about as sensitive as a goddamn toilet seat.” See, I laughed for a full thirty seconds when I first read that, but I didn’t get the whole bill of goods before I started reading. I can see how that wouldn’t go over too well with someone who had. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/63 "2010-01-29T03:48:36Z")
Exactly. I don’t see how people can miss the large amounts of humor in CitR. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > I felt no kinship with Holden Caulfield. Is feeling kinship always necessary to enjoy a book or a movie? I’m a female with almost nothing in common with Holden, though I do hate to puke, and in fact I’d like to kick his butt for several reasons, chief among them hating movies. I always want to say, Holden you ass, movie are great! when I read the book, which is often. I loved it the first time and I love it every time. I just read it again last year. I like the writing, I like the language, I like the sentences that are so neat and tidy. I like the characters (even when I don’t like the characters, like old Ackley kid), I like the time and place and setting. I like Holden’s hilarious bad attitude and his dickish but funny way of looking at the world. I like his sister Phoebe. I like how he likes his sister Phoebe. I like his general attitude toward girls, even the girl with the “bleedy-looking” fingernails. [Passages](http://www.generationterrorists.com/quotes/catcher_in_the_rye.shtml) like this crack me up: > [@](#): > > Anyway it was the Saturday of the football game with Saxxon Hall. The game with Saxxon Hall was supposed to be a very big deal around Pencey. It was the last game of the year, and you were supposed to commit suicide or something if Old Pencey didn’t win. That’s funny to me, and I’ve never been to or known anybody who went to a place like Pencey Prep in my life. It’s not all laughs. I like how it’ll be coasting along, and something like this jumps out: > [@](#): > > What really knocks me out is a book, when you’re all done reading it, you wished the author that wrote it was a terrific friend of yours and you could call him up on the phone whenever you felt like it. Yeah! RIP JD. Thanks for that book. I promise I won’t write “Fuck you” on your gravestone. > [@](#): > > That’s the whole trouble. You can’t ever find a place that’s nice and peaceful, because there isn’t any. You may think there is, but once you get there, when you’re not looking, somebody’ll sneak up and write “Fuck you” right under your nose. I think, even, if I ever die, and they stick me in a cemetery, and I have a tombstone and all, it’ll say “Holden Caulfield” on it, and then what year I was born and what year I died, and then right under that it’ll say “Fuck you.” I’m positive. People never notice anything. People never believe you. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/64 "2010-01-29T03:49:48Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > As I always say, there’s a lot of humor in it, which many people don’t see because they’ve had it crammed down their throat as something Totally Deep and Meaningful. It actually has a very IRreverent tone, but it’s too often propagandized as needing a reverential approach. Or just oversold as a Great Book. I loved that and the Glass family books, but the school hadn’t made its entry into schools and I was allowed to find them myself. I think [this](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/weekinreview/21schuessler.html?_r=1) might be more indicative of how kids feel about it now. In any case, so long and thanks for all the bananafish, Mr. Salinger. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/65 "2010-01-29T03:56:14Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > I know people in the book business. It’s way, way devolved at this point. Anything aimed at people that actually read cannot _possibly_ make money; it’s been written right out of the business model. I’m not sure what you mean. There’s lots of high quality stuff that also makes money. Audrey Niffeneger and Michael Chabon, for example. Susanna Clarke and Neil Gaiman, for others. I guess you could play true Scotsman with it and say they can’t be any good because they are selling lots of books, but hell. I think they’re awfully good, and I actually read. ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/66 "2010-01-29T04:10:36Z")
RIP, Salinger. I really, really like The Catcher in the Rye. One of my life goals is still - if I ever have a daughter, I really want to name her “Hazel Weatherfield [/gamehat]” Yes, I know Hazel should be “Hazle”, but I prefer the standard spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/67 "2010-01-29T04:29:38Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I’d like to kick his butt for several reasons, chief among them hating movies. I always want to say, Holden you ass, movie are great! Well, to be fair, in those days, movies were mostly very operatic and overacted. I can see why he would find them irritating. I bet Holden would have loved **Napoleon Dynamite** , though. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/68 "2010-01-29T04:37:17Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean. There’s lots of high quality stuff that also makes money. Audrey Niffeneger and Michael Chabon, for example. Susanna Clarke and Neil Gaiman, for others. I guess you could play true Scotsman with it and say they can’t be any good because they are selling lots of books, but hell. I think they’re awfully good, and I actually read. It’s my understanding - possibly flawed by talking to too many bitter editors :dubious: - that the diet-du-jour and rage-pundit segment pays for the whole rest of the book industry. Gaiman, Chabon et al may make back their nut quite nicely, but that doesn’t mean they satisfy the volume or margin needs of the media conglomerates who control most publishing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/69 "2010-01-29T05:14:52Z")
[Bunch Of Phonies Mourn J.D. Salinger](http://www.theonion.com/content/news/bunch_of_phonies_mourn_j_d) ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/70 "2010-01-29T05:15:58Z")
::falls on floor laughing:: Bravo, Onion. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/71 "2010-01-29T05:32:42Z")
Ha, that’s great! > [@Rilchiam](#): > > Well, to be fair, in those days, movies were mostly very operatic and overacted. I can see why he would find them irritating. You’re right in that he might have thought it was all just bullshit by a bunch of phonies. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/72 "2010-01-29T05:36:58Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > ::falls on floor laughing:: Bravo, Onion. Bravissimo. They even spelled _crumby_ his way. I actually used to pronounce the _b_. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/73 "2010-01-29T05:59:49Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I always thought he was a big phony. You’re about as sensitive as a goddamn toilet seat. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/74 "2010-01-29T07:53:15Z")
I wonder if Salinger saw people putting up Holden Caulfield as a hero, and maybe that is why he didn’t want to publish anymore. The idea of Holden Caulfield as a folk hero is pretty disturbing, and yet I can go around to the hipsters in Brooklyn and spot dozens of Holden Caulfields. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/75 "2010-01-29T12:46:42Z")
I found the Onion article rather predictable and lame. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/76 "2010-01-29T13:02:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Is feeling kinship always necessary to enjoy a book or a movie? I never said it was – but it seemed to be the reason educators were pushing the book at high school kids, and it certainly wasn’t appropriate in my case. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/77 "2010-01-29T13:07:41Z")
To believe the Marxist literary theorists, the reason the establishment teaches books by Salinger (and Orwell, and Lee, and other anti-establishment authors) is to co-opt them and undermine their subversive content. I doubt teachers think of it that way, but getting handed a book in school definitely affects the way students read it. And the way teachers teach it also probably undermines the effectiveness of the book. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/78 "2010-01-29T13:49:50Z")
Can anyone answer me this, what is it with stoners and _The Catcher In The Rye_? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/79 "2010-01-29T14:28:45Z")
I highly recommend daughter Margaret Salinger’s book “Dream Catcher.” Apparently J.D. was an excellent father who simply desisted being famous. It’s a good personal insight into the man. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789/80 "2010-01-29T15:55:11Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean. There’s lots of high quality stuff that also makes money. Audrey Niffeneger and Michael Chabon, for example. Susanna Clarke and Neil Gaiman, for others. I guess you could play true Scotsman with it and say they can’t be any good because they are selling lots of books, but hell. I think they’re awfully good, and I actually read. There are probably 50,000 books published each year by mainstream publishers. The 100 or so bestsellers sell as many copies as the other 49,900 combined. And they certainly sell far more than the 200,000 books put out by non-mainstream publishers combined. Yes, occasionally a literary book will crack the bestseller list and an occasional major work of nonfiction will as well. The rest are fluff. The vast majority of literary fiction does not make money. Audrey Niffenegger is a good example. Yes, _The Time Traveler’s Wife_ made big money. Then she was given $5 million for the sequel. It apparently sold 5% of the first novel. The entire business model of publishing today is to do a blockbuster book, not to produce quality. If they happen to coincide, then fine. But that happens less than 10% of the time. It’s strictly by accident, not by plan. You can argue that this was always true. A listing of the bestselling hardcover books of 1951 would seemingly confirm that. From _70 Years of Best Sellers_, by Alice Payne Hackett Fiction 1. From Here to Eternity, James Joyce 2. The Caine Mutiny, Herman Wouk 3. Moses, Sholem Ashe 4. The Cardinal, Henry Morton Robinson 5. A Women Called Fancy, Frank Yerby Nonfiction 1. Look Younger, Live Longer, Gayelord Hauser 2. Betty Crocker’s Picture Cook Book 3. Washington Confidential, Jack Lait and Lee Mortimer 4. Better Homes and Gardens Gardens Book 5. Better Homes and Gardens Handyman’s Book The fiction is standard middlebrow fiction, missing the genre sellers that dominate the list today. The nonfiction would mostly be put on a How-To list, except for the kind of sleazy tell-all about politics that always sells. But the interesting story is in the numbers. Not one of these books sold as many as 300,000 copies. Today’s bestsellers have to sell more than a million, proportionally more even given the size of the population. Super blockbusters like Dan Brown or J. K. Rowling were unheard of. Any of the Harry Potter books sold individually more than the entire hardback book industry in 1951. Why care about anything else? You’ll also notice no _Catcher in the Rye_. It didn’t even make the top ten. It caught on in paperback over time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-salinger-rip/526789.md?page=5)