# JD Vance Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 19, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892 "2024-08-19T00:22:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/621 "2024-09-28T00:15:30Z")
With Trump getting thrashed by Harris (soon to be twice,) Vance getting thrashed by Walz…this election is about to be embarrassing. In a way many will no doubt enjoy, of course. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/622 "2024-09-28T00:57:35Z")
Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo has been calling Vance a “Menstrual surveillance hawk” based on his rhetoric that law enforcement should monitor women’s health to ensure no illicit abortions. I hope Walz uses something like that during the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/623 "2024-09-28T02:01:29Z")
I hope Walz _doesn’t_ try to slip in any clever “couch” statements. Maybe one “weird.” ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/624 "2024-09-28T12:32:41Z")
I agree that weird has had its moment, and let’s not turn this into a Bart Simpson “I didn’t do it” bit. However, what could be brilliant is if Walz can work in the word “couch” in various indirect ways. “I want to couch this in no uncertain terms” “Your abortion stance will have women dying on their couch” and finally, maybe find an anecdote where he can describe a hunting trip that had him “couching in the grass” Play it the straight man and it could be comedy gold, and probably unsettle Vance. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/625 "2024-09-28T13:33:52Z")
Strong disagree. The jobs for Walz are - first to be a person who unsure voters can feel comfortable has the temperament and judgement to step into the top job if need be, - and second to remind people, subtly, that Vance has a good chance of having to do that, and get those unsure voters _very worried_ about that. Sophmoric games do not do that. Bonus points if the contrast is strong enough that Trump’s judgement in choosing Vance is questioned. Walz was Harris’s gut decision. _This_ is the sort of gut decision Trump makes? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/626 "2024-09-28T14:27:56Z")
Seconded. Be the adult in the room. Vance is not Trump-he doesn’t have the same weaknesses. Let people learn about Tim Walz, not how clever his speechwriters are about including niche references. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/627 "2024-09-28T15:02:30Z")
I’d like to see Walz ask him how his Christian values allow him and trump to treat the Haitian immigrants as they do. Or any downtrodden group. Seriously. MAGA assholes proudly announce, unasked, their Christian identity. Call them on it. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/628 "2024-09-28T17:21:42Z")
“Why are you discriminating against my religious beliefs? Are you in favor of dangerous immigrants coming into our towns?” That would be your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/629 "2024-09-28T17:30:42Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I’d like to see Walz ask him how his Christian values allow him and trump to treat the Haitian immigrants as they do. Or any downtrodden group. Seriously. MAGA assholes proudly announce, unasked, their Christian identity. Call them on it. The problem with this is that the Bible contains so much talk all over the place that anyone can cherry-pick whatever views they want out of it. Vance could say something to the effect of, “Hey, the Bible commanded the Israelites to commit **genocide** on multiple occasions. Project 2025 is mild compared to that” - or, “The commandments to take care of immigrants is Mosaic Old Testament and we aren’t in that covenant anymore” - and he’d be on theologically solid ground. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/630 "2024-09-28T17:37:57Z")
So to hell with whatever the Jesus character was preaching, and just cite the Old Testament? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/631 "2024-09-28T18:45:39Z")
And yet in the 22 chapter of Matthew, verses 36-39, Jesus is very clear the 2nd greatest commandment is that people should love their neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/632 "2024-09-28T19:04:48Z")
What you described is essentially how some Christians justify persecution against LGBTQ+ folks, so it would be pretty unsurprising if Vance took that tact. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/633 "2024-09-28T19:15:52Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > So to hell with whatever the Jesus character was preaching, and just cite the Old Testament? I am working on the Neo-Judaism hypothesis: Most modern US evangelicals are actually Jews (or, perhaps it should be phrased, believe in the tenets of Judaism) but just don’t know it. That explains how they focus so much on the vengeful Old Testament stuff and virtually ignore Jesus’ teachings. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/634 "2024-09-28T19:25:59Z")
I think the verses I mentioned that are in Matthew would present a bit more of a problem. Unless of course they define who is their neighbor by the color of their skin. And since you mentioned how some might use the OT argument to persecute LGBTQ+ folks, [I remember reading this book](https://www.amazon.com/Homosexual-Neighbor-Revised-Updated-Christian/dp/0060670789) as a young gay man. The title is a bit annoying but it makes the argument for full acceptance of gay people based on the verses I referenced above from the NT. The arguments would be the same when applied to immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/635 "2024-09-28T19:28:30Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > And yet in the 22 chapter of Matthew, verses 36-39, Jesus is very clear the 2nd greatest commandment is that people should love their neighbors. Jesus also said that people must hate their parents, hate their families, that Jesus came to bring a sword and not peace, that people who don’t believe in Him will roast in torture, that non-Jewish people were dogs, that “to he who has much, more will be given, but to he who has little, even what he has will be taken away,” and cursed a fig tree for not having fruit even though it was not fruit season, etc. Jesus’ words, just like Scripture overall, can also be cherry-picked or ignored at will by Trumpers and Vancers. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/636 "2024-09-28T19:38:42Z")
Vance: I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE JOB I’M RUNNING FOR IS > > > Kamala Harris @KamalaHarris ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/637 "2024-09-28T19:42:30Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Most modern US evangelicals are actually Jews (or, perhaps it should be phrased, believe in the tenets of Judaism) but just don’t know it. > > That explains how they focus so much on the vengeful Old Testament stuff and virtually ignore Jesus’ teachings. Did you mean to accuse all modern Jews of being vengeful? Wanna back down from that statement? ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/638 "2024-09-28T19:44:46Z")
If that’s what you got from that then I’m sorry, but not even a little bit what I meant. I only meant that they spout all the angry OT stuff and none of the Jesus love stuff. It’s meant to criticize that they don’t understand their own religion. Come on ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/639 "2024-09-28T19:53:27Z")
I think one reason Vance and Trumpers use that argument is because there is a narrative in their circle that Biden is already so senile and out-of-it that Kamala is the one who is truly pulling the strings and getting things done. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892/640 "2024-09-28T19:55:36Z")
Not sure why you felt the need to respond that way. I was simply offering that verse as a way Walz could point out the hypocrisy of Vance, Trump and other so called Christians who are spreading lies about immigrants. I don’t see it making any of them change how they are behaving. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jd-vance-discussion-thread/1005892.md?page=33)