# Jealousy is not a good reason to use force. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 4, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754 "2002-10-04T00:16:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/61 "2002-10-07T17:21:44Z")
**Enderw24** > [@](#): > > You damn well have the right to physically restrain your wife from screwing some other guy Let me be the third or so person to call you on this. Why do you have the “right” to do this. What other behaviors do you have the “right” to physically prevent someone from doing? I’m not saying that a person shouldn’t feel anger or whatever else were they to walk in on an example of flagrant infidelity, but I still don’t see why that would justify physical intervention. What if your SO promised to let you have the last cookie, but was about to give it to someone else instead? Should you physically restrain her from giving that cookie to the other person? Should you take the cookie away? I know we’re talking about very different places on the spectrum, but to be honest I don’t see how it makes a difference as far as proper and acceptable behavior goes. Just because a person feels intense emotion does not mean he/she should act on it. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/62 "2002-10-07T17:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lee \* > Using force to stop or prevent consensual contact between adults is wrong, even if one of them is your spouse. Restraining, hitting, or threatening someone for flirting with someone you care about is wrong. Illegal, yes, either assault or battery. Wrong? well that may be up for more debate. > [@](#): > > There is no excuse for this conduct Again, not a legal excuse, but I’m definitely more forgiving of a person who grabs a guy off his spouse than one who grabs a guy who is minding his own business. > [@](#): > > and should it break the law Police should take it seriously. A vast majority of police do, especially now. Domestic disturbances are one of the most likely to escalate quickly, perhaps fatally. Generally, the police are loathe to allow all the parties to sort it out for themselves. > [@](#): > > they should act in the same manner they would if the assault were for any other reason. Most do. But once the situation is de-escalated, the assault is, and should, be treated differently in the courts than other kinds of assault or battery. Although there is no legal defense, it is still more excusable. A point which MGibson made within 5 posts and was largely ignored. [hijack] One of my favorite work stories was a guy who was arrested for battery after he found his wife orally pleasuring a guy in an alley behind the bar they were at together. He saw them, went over, and punched the man (a co-worker of his) in the face and left. He was arrested, spent the night in jail, and the next day came up before the judge. He fully admitted to the charge, and the judge fined him $50. As he walked out he said: “Best 50 bucks I ever spent.” [hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/63 "2002-10-07T17:33:31Z")
You’re right on point. The question isn’t whether promiscuous sex is unhealthy (it is) but whether even potentially “unhealthy” behaviour by a spouse warrents violence. As I said before, If you’ve already GOT a disease, violence is not a cure, therefore not self-defense. If you want to say that you want to stop your spouse from getting a disease before they can give it to you, well sorry, your spouse has a right to get a disease. The way to protect yourself if you’re really worried about it, is to not have sex with your spouse anymore. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/64 "2002-10-07T18:10:15Z")
**Sgt. J** , your response to my “Are you sexist?” post is so filled with logical inconsistencies, I was unable to even figure out what you were trying to say. I didn’t expect you to be disingenuous, just illogical, and you obliged. For example: > [@](#): > > _ **Sgt. J** wrote:_ > I do not believe our differences make us unequal. The scenario you gave is a perfect example, is why I used me daughter as an example, because I don’t believe (as a man) in assaulting women (except for obvious situations like the woman was herself assaulting someone). I take your first statement to mean that women and men, while obviously different, are to be treated equally. Then contradicted by your second sentence. You have not provided any reasoning why your response to the same event should be different. For the record, I don’t believe men should beat up women (excepting self-defense or defense of another, as you note). I also don’t believe men should beat up men (with the same exception). Then, you continue: > [@](#): > > Is MY issue heath? I think THE issue is heath. My issues would be health and respect. So the third sentence appears to me to contradict the second. But then I think to myself, “AZ, by _respect_, he means respect for the seriousness of the potential health issues, so it is not contradictory.” OK, so we continue: > [@](#): > > If the spouse was carrying on an affair that would show an enormous lack of respect. Disrespect is in no way a justification for violence. Alright, we are in agreement! Even if the issue of respect is related to the health issue, **Sgt. J** acknowledges that it in no way is a justification for violence. > [@](#): > > If by “safe sex” you mean, “yea, we usually used rubbers”, that shows a blatant disregard for the life, safety and heath of the other party. I am unaware of **any** definition of safe sex that is “yea, we usually used rubbers”. If you can show otherwise, please cite. > [@](#): > > I would have no problem administering a good old fashion ass whopping on (for instance) my daughter’s husband if he blatantly put her life at risk. OK, now I’m lost again. The only way you made it down this path was to construe the exact opposite meaning of “safe sex”. Is that your debate tactic? > [@](#): > > You have a RESPONSIBILITY to give ANYONE you’re swapping body fluids with the information they need to make an informed decision about their own health, especially if the other party reasonably believes (because you told them) it’s safe to have unprotected sex with you because the relationship is monogamous. Well, using the evidence you posted later, that would be a stupid conclusion, now wouldn’t it? It is not _monogamous_ sex that is safe. You’d be talking about sex with a virgin. As you noted, some very serious STDs have very long incubation periods. Your daughter could be infected with one of these nasty diseases even if her husband had been completely monogamous in their relationship - if he was sexually experienced prior to their relationship. According to your logic, he _still_ deserves to get his ass kicked. But, as I posted above, this whole STD issue is a red herring. Here is the real issue: > [@](#): > > If you don’t have the backbone and common decency to be honest with that person so they can protect themselves… you deserve to have your ass kicked. That person, male or female, certainly deserves scorn, or wrath, maybe even jail, but does not deserve getting their ass kicked. Upon what moral basis do you conclude such? Clearly, it is not Xian, or any other major religious tenet… And **Diogenes the Cynic** , I think you missed my point, because “shades of gray” certainly are revelent in reference to the pit thread. > [@](#): > > You have no right to put your paws on another person PERIOD. Well, sure, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t put your “paws” on another person, if they want you to. How can you be sure of consent? And accidently bumping into someone may be unwanted physical contact, it is hardly battery. There has to be some common sense in here somewhere. It is not all black and white, at least in the real world. And I now see your last post, and we are still not in agreement. We (including myself), are having some trouble with the language. Promiscuous sex is not unhealthy. Promiscuous sex can be practiced safely. But again, I don’t think it is the issue, here. For example, for those like **Sgt. J** that might suggest it is, take the example of your daughter’s extramarital affair, where her paramour is her first and only lover. Still gonna beat the shit out of him? ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/65 "2002-10-07T18:22:47Z")
**Hamlet** , the only quibble I have is with the statement: > [@](#): > > _ **Hamlet** wrote:_ > But once the situation is de-escalated, the assault is, and should, be treated differently in the courts than other kinds of assault or battery. Although there is no legal defense, it is still more excusable. But maybe I don’t fully understand your point. I agree with **MGibson’s** point that the aggrieved spouse’s state of mind may be a mitigating circumstance, but doesn’t that only go to sentencing issues? Perhaps we are agreeing in the sense that when you say “no legal defense” you are talking about determining guilt, and your “more excusable” is related to sentencing. But I’m not sure of your comparison when you say it should be treated differently. Differently than what? Other assaults/battery? In what way? And thanks for the anecdote - I enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/66 "2002-10-07T18:27:42Z")
Let me stipulate: If a person doesn’t want to be touched, then you have no right to touch them. Does it necessarily constitute battery? No. I should have said that promiscuity CAN be unhealthy, both physically and psychologically. Does it HAVE to be? No. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/67 "2002-10-07T18:36:34Z")
**AZ Cowboy** , you caught the gist of my point. However, the handling of the case is not only about sentencing, but also about prosecutorial discretion in charging, and determinations of the level of charge a defendant faces. Take my anecdote as an example, the guy could have been charged with anything from an ordinance violation (no record, fine only), to a felony (Aggravated Battery). And, if it went to trial, the judge or jury would have the chance to find the guy guilty of a lesser included offense. The reason for my use of the “treated differently” was to include those kinds of decisions that don’t just include sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/68 "2002-10-07T18:48:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Therefore, the number of people with AIDS is less than half of one percent of the total population. the number of HETEROSEXUALS with AIDS is roughly one twentieth of one percent of the total population. This means that your odds of getting AIDS from a cheating spouse are less than one in 200 million (249,875,000-1, to be exact) \*\* Now _this_ might be a hijack but I cannot let something so mathematically wrong go unchecked. On the assumption that heterosexuals with AIDS are only .0005 of the populations (which it may or may not be but that’s another debate) and on the assumption that your SO is heterosexual and not bisexual or secretly gay (which would therefore increase the odds) and on the assumption taht there are 250 million people in the US (actually more like 300 million but whatever) _breath_ THEN…the odds would not be 1 out of 250 million! Where do you get that from? It would be 1 out of 2000 which, as you stated before, was the % of heterosexuals infected with AIDS. Simple mathematics. **Enowe** , even you admitted that cookie argument was a tad reaching. But, you know, if I believed that single cookie was the foundation of our entire relationship I’d probably be a tad pissed she gave it to someone else. I might even try to stop her from doing so. And I’d be justified in doing so too. Why? Legally she made an oral contract with me to give me the cookie (um…ignoring the concept of “consideration” for a moment 🙂 ). So I should have the ability to stop her from giving that cookie to another. What’s the difference between that example and sex? Most rational people realize that a cookie just isn’t that important. Most rational people would not say that a relationship hinged upon who had ownership of that cookie. What people would see is a contractual relationship that was entered into when the marriage was formed. Because that’s what marriage is, folks: a contract. And when you enter into that contract you have just lost the right to screw around on your spouse without their consent. You don’t like those terms? Then don’t get married to a person who forces that on you. Fine by me. As for myself and marriage I’m not going to insist on chastity belts. I’m not going to insist on check up phone calls. There MUST be a level of trust or the relationship is doomed. But if I walk into the bedroom and see you mounting a guy I’m not going to think twice about shoving you off him. If that makes me an animal in your eyes then coo coo ca fuckin’ choo. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/69 "2002-10-07T19:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I take your first statement to mean that women and men, while obviously different, are to be treated equally Men and women different, and as such should be treated differently in certain situations. I would be much more inclined to strike a man who throws a punch at me than a woman. If that is sexist, put me firmly in the sexist camp. I do believe women should be kept out of any careered fields or paid any less for any work they do. I go out of my way to hold the door for women. Illogical since I consider Women to be my equal? OK, color me illogical. Many things in a society are based on societal customs more than logic. I doesn’t make them wrong. > [@](#): > > ## But, as I posted above, this whole STD issue is a red herring. Here is the real issue: quote: > > If you don’t have the backbone and common decency to be honest with that person so they can protect themselves… you deserve to have your ass kicked. > > * * * STD’s are not a red herring; they’re a mitigating circumstance. I agree that you have identified the real issue. > [@](#): > > That person, male or female, certainly deserves scorn, or wrath, maybe even jail, but does not deserve getting their ass kicked. Upon what moral basis do you conclude such? Clearly, it is not Xian, or any other major religious tenet… Just because a response falls in line with an established religious tenet does not make it Universal Truth. I spent the summer in Saudi Arabia where the penalty for Adultery is often death. Is that acceptable now that it falls within a religious tenet somewhere? Lest you begin salivating over your response, I’d like to go on the record as being against making adultery a capitol crime. I am would also like to be on the record as saying that a wife who finds out her hubby has been exposing her to disease just because he didn’t have the spine to TELL THE TRUTH, who then slaps him upside the head all the way out the door isn’t offending any of MY moral sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/70 "2002-10-07T19:14:39Z")
**Enderw24** , First, _I_ am not calling you an animal… and I certainly agree with the _emotions_ involved. The point I’m trying to make is that just 'cause you have the emotion doesn’t mean you’re justified in taking whatever action you feel is necessary. And I also think you’re confusing legality with justifiability, which are not quite the same thing. But, going on what you said, I can’t think of _any_ situation where someone has a right to make me obey a contract, written or otherwise, by using physical force. That’s why there are courts. If you’re suggesting physical violence as an appropriate means of dealing with breach of contract (which seems to be the argument you’re making… “_Legally she made an oral contract with me to give me the cookie (um…ignoring the concept of “consideration” for a moment ). So I should have the ability to stop her from giving that cookie to another._”), then what role do the courts play? We have a legal system in place just because we as a society don’t feel that justice should be in the hands of the individual. Note, please, that I’m not making any judgment on how you feel, but I am saying that if someone threw the book at you for being violent in any manner towards a SO or her/his lover, I may feel your pain, but I’d also feel that it was right for you to recieve some sort of punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/71 "2002-10-07T19:16:14Z")
That should be “I do **NOT** believe” women should be paid less, etc. Yikes!~ what a typo… ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/72 "2002-10-07T19:16:34Z")
That should be “I do **NOT** believe” women should be paid less, kept out of carreres, etc. Yikes!~ what a typo… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/73 "2002-10-07T19:16:38Z")
Just curious: do I have the moral right to punch someone, or to otherwise physically restrain someone, in an effort to stop him from stealing my stereo? I’m not equating a spouse to a stereo. But I’m trying to determine if the objections to the use of violence are so far-reaching as to include property as well as people. In other words, do the objections to violence vanish when the issue is property, and appear only when the issue is another human being, fully capable of her own decisions and consent - or is violence simply wrong in all circumstances? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/74 "2002-10-07T20:05:49Z")
**Bricker** , to be within the scope of this thread, your question would have to read: "Do I have the moral right to punch someone, or to otherwise physically restrain someone, in an effort to stop him from _taking **my wife’s** stereo, that she offered to give him_? And the answer is: No. Otherwise, your analogy is more related to the rape issue. But you say you are not equating a spouse to a stereo. Since it would be a hijack, I will only quickly respond that it depends (which you can infer that violence isn’t simply wrong in all circumstances). Protecting humans from violence with violence is a much higher priority than protecting property with violence. Certainly one is entitled to protect their property, but the force used must be reasonable and not excessive. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/75 "2002-10-07T20:41:27Z")
Eonwe, I realize that you weren’t calling me an animal. I merely wished to preemtively strike anyone who read my words and was calling me one. You asked what role the courts play. The courts are there for the divorce proceedings if necessary. The courts are there to prosecute the jealous spouse who beat up one or both of the participants in the act. You’ll notice that not once in this thread did I advocate differently. If substantial harm is caused above what a reasonable jury would consider justifiable for the circumstances, that person should be punished. What is justifiable? Couldn’t answer that. Back to the shades of gray. But some force should be justifiable. To rule that out is too simplistic an answer. To go back to the cookie, if you cannot stop someone from eating the cookie you’ve lost the ability to ever get it back (ignoring what happens 24 hours from now). You can’t call the police and ask them to intervene. You can’t file a motion for a preliminary injunction. It’s up to you to stop that cookie from being eaten. Some people might be reading this and saying “how can you equate your (hypothetical future) wife to property? How can you boil the concept of marriage down to a simplistic contract?” The answer is that I don’t…until it becomes necessary. Does anyone get it? Does anyone understand the scenario here? Everything we’re talking about in this thread happens because my (again hypothetical future) spouse has CHEATED on me. Allow me to go back to 5th grade and use the excuse “she started it!” She did. SHE broke the contract. SHE treated me like a sub human being. SHE had no respect for me, my feelings, or the relationship. Yet somehow I would be the one to blame because my emotions got the better of me and, besides, adultery laws are anachronistic anyway. Let’s look at the big picture and put the blame where it belongs, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/76 "2002-10-07T21:06:35Z")
My response to that would be that you are combining two different actions into one. First, your wife has broken her marriage vows. Second, you physically manhandle her and somewhat violently restrain her (I can’t imagine a situation where you’d pull two people apart who were going at it that wouldn’t be at least a little violent). The first event does not necessitate the second. You say: > [@](#): > > Allow me to go back to 5th grade and use the excuse “she started it!” > She did. SHE broke the contract. SHE treated me like a sub human being. SHE had no respect for me, my feelings, or the relationship. Yet somehow I would be the one to blame because my emotions got the better of me and, besides, adultery laws are anachronistic anyway. Let’s look at the big picture and put the blame where it belongs, shall we? The blame for what? She is to blame for treating you badly, like a sub human, etc. _You_, however, would be to blame for getting physically violent. It sounds an awful lot like you’re saying that someone else is responsible for your actions because they caused you to get angry/jealous/whatever. Let me ask: what else justifies physical violence? Just because I get angry with someone (which is basically what we’re saying) it’s ok for me to get physical? Nowhere in the “marriage contract” does it say that one partner gives the other the right to physically restrain or act otherwise in an agressive behavior towards the other in order to ensure the other’s adherence to the contract. To be honest, that’s a pretty scarry thought. I’d hate to think I’d ever be in a court of law someday and have the judge tell me, “sorry son, but you really really pissed him off. You deserved to be hit, and he was in his full rights to sock you.” Since this is GD, I really need to ask, what are the legal implications of marriage anyway? Is there anything really legally preventing a spouse from cheating on another? It feels like a made-up argument to me, but I could be wrong. Can we get a cite on this from someone please? Just because I promise you something doesn’t mean I’m legally bound to it, and I have serious doubts as to whether monogmay is something that someone is legally bound to through mariage (as you seem to be basing your argument on). ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/77 "2002-10-07T22:27:40Z")
All this talk of ‘legal’ is somewhat pointless when dealing with one of the strongest emotions that people can experience. \*Do I have a legal right to bury/smack my hypothetical wife and her lover? Nope. Of course not. \*Would I? Probably. At the very least I would think about it a good long time. In my humble opinion, you are less then a man if you didn’t get ‘upset’ at a cheating wife and her new friend. How you actually deal with it depends on a myriad of circumstances. At the very least, the little tramp could have the decency to get a divorce/annulment. (And the reverse is true from the opposite perspective; I would expect a woman to get just as pissed as me if her spouse was cheating on her) ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/78 "2002-10-07T22:44:57Z")
OK, I’ll play. In my humble opinion, you are less then a man if, when you get ‘upset’ at a cheating wife and her paramour, you respond by smacking her and her lover around. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/79 "2002-10-08T00:34:46Z")
Cheating is bad. It is very, very bad. Cheating is non-physical (mental / emotional) domestic abuse. I propose that those who cheat on a spouse (that is, a legally official partner of theirs) be treated the same way we treat others who perform non-physical domestic abuse. In my opinion, anyone whos considers it morally permissible (or morally excusable, or morally mitigating) for violence to be performed by a victim of other non-physical domestic abuse upon the instigator of that abuse should also hold that opinion in the case of cheating. I personally believe that in extreme situations involving non-physical domestic abuse (such as cheating), mild violence is morally permissible. In some cases, I believe it is morally necessary. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754/80 "2002-10-08T00:54:07Z")
So non-physical domestic abuse begets physical domestic abuse? Oh, yeah, the “two wrongs make a right” moral code. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jealousy-is-not-a-good-reason-to-use-force/130754.md?page=5)