# Jeb Bush & the political dynasty issue **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334 "2015-01-20T00:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/21 "2015-01-21T20:49:23Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > That said, should the election come down to Bush vs. Clinton, I’m going to have a very hard time keeping from voting for Ralph Nader, or possibly Pat Buchanan. Fuck **that** shit! Vote **Lizard People!** ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/22 "2015-01-21T21:51:36Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I do, however, find it highly amusing that the Reaganites like to demonstrate how horrible Carter was by his defeat by Reagan, and ignore Bush’s defeat by Clinton. Maybe if Clinton had gotten a majority of the vote the way Reagan did, that woudn’t happen. > [@2ManyTacos](#): > > How much of a drag on Jeb (& Hillary) do you expect the political dynasty issue to be? More of a drag on Jeb than on Hillary. I am a Republican, and I don’t care for the notion of dynasties. Once is OK, twice is tolerable, but third time is not the charm. I don’t even have much against Jeb - I just don’t like the idea of someone else from the same family. Less so for Hillary. I don’t like her, but the fact that she is a woman mitigates against the idea that she is Slick Willie II. Plus she is a completely different type of politician than Bill - a policy wonk rather than a used-car salesman. The part that might affect her is the idea that she is a quota - OK, we had a black guy, now we need a woman, next up will be a gay guy and then we can look among the Hispanics. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/23 "2015-01-21T22:31:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Jeb Bush is probably the only Republican who’s hoping Hillary Clinton will run. If she’s his opponent, it neutralizes a good amount of the “dynasty” issue. It’ll still be there - the legacy of the last Bush administration is a lot worse than the legacy of the last Clinton administration. But at least with another Clinton running, the Democrats won’t be able to beat the dynasty drum as loudly. I think that’s one way to look at it, but I actually think Hillary is the worst opponent for Jeb because if the public is choosing between Clinton and Bush they will pick Clinton. The name just comes with better memories. You counter Clinton with new. You use Bush to counter extreme, like if the Democrats were to nominate Liz Warren. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/24 "2015-01-21T23:40:59Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Still, the voters have shown before that the issue of political dynasties is nonexistent in other arenas. The Roosevelt’s, Kennedy’s, Pryor’s, and so forth have certainly proven that to be the case in other political contexts, so maybe I’m entirely off base. There were also two Presidents Adams and two Presidents Harrison, but neither family ever became a “dynasty.” Maybe it’s just a non-problem. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/25 "2015-01-21T23:42:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You counter Clinton with new. You use Bush to counter extreme, like if the Democrats were to nominate Liz Warren. If “new” means “other than GOP establishment mainstream,” then, no, you can’t counter Clinton with “new.” Jeb has a much better chance against her than Cruz or Huckabee or Perry or any Tea Partier or RWnut could possibly have. So does Romney. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/26 "2015-01-21T23:56:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > There were also two Presidents Adams and two Presidents Harrison, but neither family ever became a “dynasty.” Maybe it’s just a non-problem. I agree. The Kennedys and Roosevelts too. However, I do think the GOP has a bit of a problem. There’s been a Bush on every winning Presidential ticket since 1980, and Nixon on every winning Presidential ticket since 1952. The Republicans keep on going to the same well over and over. We need new blood. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/27 "2015-01-21T23:57:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If “new” means “other than GOP establishment mainstream,” then, no, you can’t counter Clinton with “new.” Jeb has a much better chance against her than Cruz or Huckabee or Perry or any Tea Partier or RWnut could possibly have. So does Romney. The ones you cite are fatally flawed candidates. Scott Walker, John Kasich, and Bobby Jindal however, can compete with Clinton. And they are GOP establishment mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/28 "2015-01-22T00:21:23Z")
Jeb Bush has a bigger name and “electability” (re: money, influence) than Jon Huntsman. I expect with all those points working for him, he probably will be severely bruised in the GOP primary and have a good chance of not making it out. His name is toxic, there are few crazy people willing to support a Bush unless its in the same sentence denouncing Obama. But in the primaries he’ll have to stand on his own. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/29 "2015-01-22T00:58:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We need new blood. Cheney, at least, would agree . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/30 "2015-01-22T01:00:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The ones you cite are fatally flawed candidates. Scott Walker, John Kasich, and Bobby Jindal however, can compete with Clinton. And they are GOP establishment mainstream. I dunno much about Kasich, but Hillary could stomp Walker or Jindal into paste without working up a sweat, and I should **hope** a nutcase like Jindal ain’t GOP mainstream! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/31 "2015-01-22T01:05:20Z")
Jindal’s nuttiness is based entirely on things he’s said. He’s a governor, so has a record to point to, and it’s solid and not extreme at all. I’ll admit Jindal’s been hurting himself lately, but there’s a lot of substance to the guy. Clinton’s ability to beat Jindal or any other Republican other than Bush will depend on two factors: 1. How popular is Obama? Do voters want a third term? 2. How extreme is the Republican? Walker, Jindal, and Kasich are close enough to mainstream to not have an issue on #2, and if Obama remains unpopular(yes, I know he’s getting a bounce right now), then #1 will be in their favor too. The problem with Bush is that it introduces a third factor: the Bush name. We just shouldn’t do that to ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/32 "2015-01-22T04:14:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The part that might affect her is the idea that she is a quota - OK, we had a black guy, now we need a woman, next up will be a gay guy and then we can look among the Hispanics. This is what’s killing the Republican party - the assumption that a President is supposed to be a white man and anyone else who runs for President is just some kind of gimmick. The white male demographic is shrinking. Republicans need to start taking other groups seriously. Because the voters in those groups see no need to support a party that regards them as second-class members whose sole function is to cast votes for the real Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/33 "2015-01-22T04:56:47Z")
There’s a woman, a black guy, and an Indian in the field. Only the woman is truly non-viable, and the Republicans and Democrats have exactly the same number of female VP nominees. When he says it’s a gimmick, what he means, I assume, is that if the Democrats are going out of their way to NOT nominate a white guy, then they are falling prey to gimmickry. And given the base’s lackadaisacal attitude towards voting, they probably need pizazz to get them out. Which tends to result in trying to nominate people for sizzle rather than steak. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/34 "2015-01-22T06:07:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This is what’s killing the Republican party - the assumption that a President is supposed to be a white man and anyone else who runs for President is just some kind of gimmick. > > The white male demographic is shrinking. Republicans need to start taking other groups seriously. Because the voters in those groups see no need to support a party that regards them as second-class members whose sole function is to cast votes for the real Republicans. And liberals, for their part, should stop characterizing any minority candidate as a “token” who’s only there to pretend the Republicans aren’t a bunch of angry white racists. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/35 "2015-01-22T07:00:52Z")
Hand wringing over “dynasty issues” re: Bush and Clinton strikes me as something that talking heads do to fill airtime, not something that normal voters care about. If anything, it’s a plus. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/36 "2015-01-22T16:56:34Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > And liberals, for their part, should stop characterizing any minority candidate as a “token” who’s only there to pretend the Republicans aren’t a bunch of angry white racists. Come back when they actually stop being angry and white. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/37 "2015-01-22T17:11:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This is what’s killing the Republican party - the assumption that a President is supposed to be a white man and anyone else who runs for President is just some kind of gimmick. Yup, that’s killing us, all right. No wonder we don’t control Congress, and why Carson and Jindal are never even considered for the nomination. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/38 "2015-01-22T17:11:44Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > And liberals, for their part, should stop characterizing any minority candidate as a “token” who’s only there to pretend the Republicans aren’t a bunch of angry white racists. What do you call minorities who are paid to say racist things against their own group that the people holding the purse strings can’t say openly? What do you call the people who lap up their self-hatred if not angry white racists? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/39 "2015-01-22T17:12:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yup, that’s killing us, all right. No wonder we don’t control Congress, and why Carson and Jindal are never even considered for the nomination. > > Regards, > Shodan Carson and Jindal are not really considered for the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/40 "2015-01-22T17:59:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yup, that’s killing us, all right. No wonder we don’t control Congress, and why Carson and Jindal are never even considered for the nomination. > > Regards, > Shodan Your “control of Congress” (lacking a veto-proof majority) is due more to voter apathy (2014 had the worst turnout in 70 years) and gerrymandering than anything approaching political brilliance or ideological purity. :dubious: The Republican’s biggest demographic is white men over fifty. Hardly the herald of a bright future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=3)