# Jeb Bush & the political dynasty issue **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334 "2015-01-20T00:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/61 "2015-01-28T01:26:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Bush will have two things Huntsman didn’t have: money and a name that commands respect among Republicans who aren’t Tea Party. > > Plus I don’t get the impression Bush NEEDS this. So why sell out? Because he needs the votes of the current tea party nativists. > **[Jeb Bush Suggests Polite Self-Deportation For Undocumented Immigrants](https://crooksandliars.com/2015/01/jeb-bush-suggests-polite-self-deportation)** > > Jeb is threading a slippery needle with this one. > [@](#): > > Well, now. Jeb Bush knows his biggest barrier to the 2016 nomination is his stance on comprehensive immigration reform, so he’s dealing with that thorny little problem right now. > > … > > “We ought to be able to figure out where they are and politely ask them to leave.” > > Well, there you go. Polite self-deportation. A little tidbit of red meat for the xenophobes and some nice cover for that ugly “self-deportation” concept. > > Hey Jeb, that worked out really well for Mitt in 2012. You really think it’ll work for you? Yep, like I thought he looks more like Romney than the new Romney: run to the right for the primaries and hope that minorities will forget about in in the general election. Not likely. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/62 "2015-01-28T07:16:21Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Hell, even in the case of Bush Sr. - who isn’t as universally reviled as W - **nobody looks back on his Presidency with _fondness_ per se** ; rather… _Shakes your hand_ Glad to meet you I’m Nobody and you are? I know my views aren’t common but … Bush is what I consider to be the best President we’ve elected in my lifetime (starting with Nixon). Clinton was the best Democrat in my mind. So strangely the two legacy names both have quite a bit of positive connotation in my mind. I also don’t seem to attach much if any positive effect to someone with the same name. The runt of the Bush litter was part of the ballot where I most wanted to sell my soul to the devil in order to get two new choices. My evaluation of HW didn’t help W. Again that view isn’t common, including ignoring the dynasty effect. I see three possible effects of dynasty on the population at large - “not another Bush/Clinton”, name recognition aiding fundraising/coverage, and being stereotyped by the voters with preconceptions that they’ll be like their family members. I think the first two, with reasonably effective campaigns works out to be a slight positive for both especially early. Two Bushes to one Clinton makes the first effect stronger for Bush though. His net gain is likely smaller and he might lose a half step to Hillary head to head. The third I think varies between the primaries and the general election. For the primaries I see a slight negative for Hillary of being associated with Bill’s legacy. She’s more centrist than much of her base and Bill’s legacy reinforces that. In the general election I think that centrist and positive association is a plus. She gains in the middle but doesn’t lose the more extreme parts of the base who won’t vote for a Republican in any realistic numbers unless actual physical torture is involved. Of course that assumes the less centrist Democrats don’t stay home in disgust. Bush has the polarizing legacy of his brother. It won’t hurt him in the primaries where they tend to think relatively positively about the legacy. It probably has some negative impact come general election time with the center of the electorate. I ignore Dad’s legacy because I think that effect is much smaller. In 2016 the absolute youngest voter that saw HWs name on a ballot is 42. He’s a childhood memory, at best, for a good chunk of the electorate. Us older folks tend to forget that. I like to hope both effects are small and don’t swing the race. My faith in the voters though… \*sigh ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/63 "2015-01-29T02:21:40Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > In 2016 the absolute youngest voter that saw HWs name on a ballot is 42. He’s a childhood memory, at best, for a good chunk of the electorate. Us older folks tend to forget that. Well, Children that got a hold of MAD magazines then (usually the cool kids) sure have Bush the lesser in their memories. > **[MAD Magazine | Welcome to MAD](https://www.dc.com/mad)** > > Welcome to MAD Magazine! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/64 "2015-01-29T03:00:52Z")
Bush 41 has definitely improved his standing over the years. He was a solid President who just had the bad luck of presiding over a relatively mild recession, and who just wasn’t talented enough a politician to overcome the fact that Republicans had held the White House for 12 years. GWB though, while his standing seems to have improved substantially over the last seven years, he’ll never be considered a good President. Just too much incompetence, too many political games, the politicization of 9/11 and the terrorist threat, a disastrous elective war, a financial meltdown… But he may have improved enough in public standing that it won’t hurt Jeb too much. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/65 "2015-01-29T10:52:47Z")
I was a mere tot when HW was president, so all I know of him is what I’ve learned via studying history and politics, and I have a fairly high opinion of him as president. I think he’s certainly the only decent republican president we’ve had since Eisenhower. In my mind, George W Bush was a disaster for his first 6 or 7 years of his presidency, and then in the end he pulled it together and stopped listening to Cheney and became sort of decent. He didn’t let the economy completely collapse under his watch. He did a lot of good things to fight AIDS in Africa. He tried, what I consider to be, a noble experiment in improving education, even though it was pretty much a failure (NCLB). I also think liberals heap too much blame on Bush for the economic disaster. It was really a combination of Reagan, Clinton, and Bush policies that all culminated in it. Anyhow, point being, 2004 was the first year I was legally eligible to vote. I don’t have any immediate dislike for Jeb Bush just because of his family’s legacy. I sincerely doubt I will vote for him, since republicans these days are pretty much against everything I am for, but I don’t think he’d be a huge disaster for the country just because the family baggage. I’d be _much_ more scared of a Romney, Palin, Bachman, Perry, or pretty much anyone other than Huntsman presidency. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/66 "2015-01-29T12:39:57Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I’d be _much_ more scared of a Romney, Palin, Bachman, Perry, or pretty much anyone other than Huntsman presidency. If he survives long enough you might like Kasich. I grew up in Ohio and still have family there. He’s a Republican that on first blush doesn’t scare me and has broken with strict partisan doctrine on issues affecting the state. I say that as a registered Republican who’s response to too many of the prospective candidates is fear they might actually win. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/67 "2015-01-30T18:25:29Z")
An interesting tidbit courtesy of [Politifact](http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2015/jan/26/tweets/it-true-republicans-havent-won-presidential-race-1/): The GOP has not won a presidential election without a Bush or Nixon on the ticket since 1928. That blows me away. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/68 "2015-01-31T10:35:11Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Hell, even most Republicans - look back on the Clinton years fondly in a way that nobody affords to the terms of either HW Bush or W. They don’t look back on Clinton fondly, they look back on the years where computers, Internet, etc…created some prosperity, and Gingrich’s handling, etc… Republicans don’t overly love Clinton, and calling that time ‘the Clinton years’ does not mean that Clinton is the reason for that affection. ETA: That is, the Republicans who were around then. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/69 "2015-01-31T10:41:37Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > An interesting tidbit courtesy of [Politifact](http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2015/jan/26/tweets/it-true-republicans-havent-won-presidential-race-1/): The GOP has not won a presidential election without a Bush or Nixon on the ticket since 1928. That blows me away. handsomeharry fact: There has never been a Bush or Nixon on the ticket before 1952. That link was a bunch of shit. I thought it would be something interesting. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/70 "2015-02-05T15:12:20Z")
Was just reading [this](http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/politics/bush-immigration-conservatives-detroit/index.html) CNN article on Bush, and it seems he isn’t doing or saying the right things to conservatives. The implications in the article is that Bush really has no chance in the primary if he continues to go against ‘conservative mainstream thought’. > [@](#): > > Washington (CNN)During a “Family Reunion” conference hosted by the Hispanic Leadership Network in April 2013, Jeb Bush spoke freely on the promise immigrants hold for America and his views on reform. > > He said, during a discussion with Univision, that it was “ridiculous” to think that DREAMers, children brought to the U.S. by their parents illegally, shouldn’t have an “accelerated path” to citizenship. > > Then, the former Florida governor was speaking to a friendly audience of establishment Republicans, after re-inserting himself in the immigration reform with the release of a controversial book on the issue a month prior. > > But as he moves towards a probable presidential run, and the far less friendly terrain of the GOP primary fight, the comments, which were shared with CNN by Democratic tracking firm American Bridge, are certain to deepen already developing headaches for him — on both the left and especially the right, as conservatives react in a mixture of bewilderment and eye-rolling when confronted with some of Bush’s resurfaced lines on immigration. > > “I’ve never felt like the sins of the parents should be ascribed to the children, you know,” Bush said in 2013. “If your children always have to pay the price for adults decisions they make — how fair is that? For people who have no country to go back to — which are many of the DREAMers — it’s ridiculous to think that there shouldn’t be some accelerated path to citizenship.” > [@](#): > > he comments Bush made several years ago weren’t dealbreakers for him in a primary, multiple conservative operatives and lawmakers said. And they didn’t reveal beliefs or positions on immigration that he hasn’t already openly held. > > But they were so atypical for a Republican candidate gearing up for a presidential run that the universal reaction from conservative operatives was “Wow.” > > That’s the word Hogan Gidley, a South Carolina Republican operative who’s advised both Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum’s presidential campaigns, used when confronted with the comments. > > RELATED: Bush: Parents ‘ought to’ vaccinate kids > > “Those are definitely not helpful for Mr. Bush,” he said. Gidley did note, however, that immigration reform hasn’t been a deal-breaker in the South Carolina primary in the past, pointing to Newt Gingrich’s 2012 primary win as evidence, and that Bush will “have so much money that he can, possibly, overcome these types of things.” > > “But,” he added, “it’s going to take a lot of money to overcome some of these types of quotes.” > > “Wow” is also what conservative strategist Daniel Horowitz, who edits the site [ConservativeReview.com](http://ConservativeReview.com), said when he saw them. > > “I’m just reading this stuff — wow,” he said. “This is insane. Honestly, I don’t take him seriously, because of [comments like] these and because of the Bush name it’s very hard to see him getting anywhere in a primary.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/71 "2015-02-05T15:27:17Z")
Jeb’s views on immigration will also be a hard sell to GOP stalwarts: [http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/politics/bush-immigration-conservatives-detroit/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/politics/bush-immigration-conservatives-detroit/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/72 "2015-02-05T20:13:08Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Jeb’s views on immigration will also be a hard sell to GOP stalwarts: [http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/politics/bush-immigration-conservatives-detroit/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/politics/bush-immigration-conservatives-detroit/index.html) Ooops, sorry, I see that’s the same article **XT** linked to. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/73 "2015-02-05T21:40:20Z")
Could Jeb neutralise the dynasty issue by saying something along the lines of, “I am not my brother; I am my own man.”? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/74 "2015-02-05T22:04:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Could Jeb neutralise the dynasty issue by saying something along the lines of, “I am not my brother; I am my own man.”? I guarantee he’ll say that. A lot. I don’t think it’ll neutralize much though. I don’t think the issue with Americans is the dynasty aspect (we did love our Van Burens, after all). It’s just that we gave the Bush’s a shot at being a dynasty and they fucking blew it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/75 "2015-02-05T22:06:54Z")
From the quoted article: > [@](#): > > “I’ve never felt like the sins of the parents should be ascribed to the children, you know,” Bush said in 2013. Yes, he would want to say that, wouldn’t he. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/76 "2015-02-05T23:03:00Z")
I’m a conservative - libertarian type who will almost certainly be voting R in the next election. Jeb Bush seems to be a capable politician. He’s conservative. He’s a Governor, which is a plus. On paper he’d be a great candidate for the nomination. But I’ll almost certainly be voting for anybody else. The dynasty issue really bothers me. Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton. If this continues much longer than we should just have a generic ballot for president with R or D on it and whichever Bush or Clinton is up next can take the POTUS when they are old enough. Does anyone reading this have any doubt in their mind that at some point we’ll see a Chelsea candidacy? It’s inevitable. I blame campaign finance limitations for this mess. Only a sadist would subject themselves to the 1,000 rubber chicken dinners required to raise enough money to run at this point. We’ve created a situation where fundraising and name recognition make it difficult for the Scott Walkers and Kelly Ayotes of the word to be considered. The only shot people like this seem to have is to run for VP first. I hope I’m wrong about this, since I like those two. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/77 "2015-02-06T00:19:53Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > We’ve created a situation where fundraising and name recognition make it difficult for the Scott Walkers and Kelly Ayotes of the word to be considered. I don’t see why. Walker, at least, is nationally known and has been getting a lot of financial-political support from out-of-state conservatives for years now. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/78 "2015-02-06T00:48:54Z")
I saw an interview with Barbara Bush and her granddaughters and they were talking about Jeb running in 2016 and his mom said she does not think her son should run that we had enough Bush in the White House . Her grandkids where shocked but I loved it b/c I don’t want another Bush or Clinton in the WH ! Laura Bush was there too. [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/25/barbara-bush-on-jeb-in-2016-weve-had-enough-bushes/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/25/barbara-bush-on-jeb-in-2016-weve-had-enough-bushes/) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/79 "2015-02-06T02:33:38Z")
I foresee a killer ad, either in the GOP primaries or in the general, with footage and stats of the Bush recessions of both 1992 and 2008, and ending with, “Ready for _another_ President Bush?” ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/80 "2015-02-06T03:40:56Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Does anyone reading this have any doubt in their mind that at some point we’ll see a Chelsea candidacy? It’s inevitable. i remember watching an interview with Bill and he went on about “Chelsea has great experience in the private sector, blah blah blah.” Yep, McKinsey and a hedge fund(Avenue Capital Group) hired her based solely on merit. I don’t want to disparage Chelsea since I don’t know what she was like at work. But she obviously wasn’t hired solely on her personal merits. That kind of 5 years in the private sector is the most dangerous kind as she might actually believe she got a real experience and knows her shit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=5)