# Jeb Bush & the political dynasty issue **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334 "2015-01-20T00:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/81 "2015-02-06T12:57:54Z")
Someone said something funny on MSNBC about George Bush Sr. and “no child left behind” (groan). ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/82 "2015-02-06T14:02:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t see why. Walker, at least, is nationally known and has been getting a lot of financial-political support from out-of-state conservatives for years now. True, Walker is more recognizable nationally because of his wars with the pinkie ring wearing public sector union thugs. 😃 But is he really known by regular people? The sort of average people who can’t even name their own senators? We know him. We also post on a message board about politics. We’re not typical. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/83 "2015-02-06T18:56:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Jeb was one of the most conservative governors in the country. What? Jeb campaigned in Florida as a moderate. He won 14% of the black vote, which for a Republican is very impressive. Other than executing a relatively large number of people, and his Terri Schiavo idiocy he mostly governed as a moderate, too. Other than vouchers, his education policy was decidedly liberal. He obviously did lots of conservative things, like gutting the public sector (hat tip to **Zakalwe** ) and forcing through some pro-business legislation, but he did most of that very quietly. Rick Scott (to use a more recent example) does those things very loudly and crows about them in his campaign materials. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/84 "2015-02-06T19:20:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What? Jeb campaigned in Florida as a moderate. He won 14% of the black vote, which for a Republican is very impressive. Other than executing a relatively large number of people, and his Terri Schiavo idiocy he mostly governed as a moderate, too. Other than vouchers, his education policy was decidedly liberal. > > He obviously did lots of conservative things, like gutting the public sector (hat tip to **Zakalwe** ) and forcing through some pro-business legislation, but he did most of that very quietly. > > Rick Scott (to use a more recent example) does those things very loudly and crows about them in his campaign materials. Well thanks! I agree with this with the possible exception of the “very quietly” part, but that’s hard for me to judge since I was VERY heavily involved with state government at the time and had a very different perspective on things than most people. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/85 "2015-02-06T19:42:05Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > True, Walker is more recognizable nationally because of his wars with the pinkie ring wearing public sector union thugs. > > 😃 > > But is he really known by regular people? The sort of average people who can’t even name their own senators? We know him. We also post on a message board about politics. We’re not typical. I suspect name recognition is the only significant factor in any polls today, Democrat or Republican. Which is, so far, what Hilary has going for her, and what Romney would have if he changes his mind. Jeb Bush has it to some degree, but that is partially offset by the anti-dynastic feeling that you (and I, and much of the electorate) hold. But it will be a lot easier for any Republican to overcome the name recognition factor of Jeb Bush than for a Democrat to overcome Hilary’s name recognition. Walker can do it, perhaps, but he will do so based on his record, first to Republicans, and then if he gets the nom, to moderates. Hilary’s advantage is that she doesn’t need to attract Democrats so much - she is sort of the heir presumptive. Maybe she can sail thru the primaries without spending a lot of money or getting tired enough to say something catastrophic, or several somethings. But if the feeling is that we need a fresh face in Washington, that is to the advantage of everyone except Hilary and Jeb. That feeling was some of the reason Obama won against McCain, and against Hilary. That won’t happen as much in a Jeb vs. Hilary match-up. Maybe a little - obviously Hilary is much more of a Washington insider than Jeb, who has never held federal office. The election will be determined by moderates, as it always is. A moderate who just says “I want a fresh face” isn’t going to go for Hilary, and probably not for Jeb either. A Romney-Clinton match-up is subject to the same factor, but probably a bit less for Romney than for Jeb Bush - the name Bush was a Washington insider, even if the candidate wasn’t. The name Romney never was, unless the feeling is “I don’t want anyone who even ran before either”, which is possible. I am still hoping Romney changes his mind later and runs, hopefully close to the beginning of the primaries and sails thru to the White House. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/86 "2015-02-06T19:47:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am still hoping Romney changes his mind later and runs, hopefully close to the beginning of the primaries and sails thru to the White House. You and me both, brother. I keep hoping that Mitt made his recent statement just to take the pressure off since it was looking increasingly like he was going to definitely run. He could still come back in, especially if there’s no clear front runner and/or if Jeb implodes. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/87 "2015-02-06T20:06:42Z")
And the “Draft Romney” movement builds even more momentum! Romney! He’s not insane! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/88 "2015-02-17T20:55:20Z")
[Jeb’s clueless Bush privilege: The arrogant dynasty debacle he won’t get away with.](http://www.salon.com/2015/02/17/jebs_clueless_bush_privilege_the_arrogant_dynasty_debacle_he_wont_get_away_with/) > [@](#): > > There’s something quaint about the way Jeb Bush is trying to get around critiquing or endorsing his big brother’s disastrous presidency, especially when it comes to the unpopular wars President George W. Bush began and mishandled. It’s almost as if the commoners are trying to get him to gossip about family matters, and voters will understand if he’s too much of a gentleman to do so. > Asked by the Washington Post’s Philip Rucker whether his foreign policy speech next week would deal with his brother’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Bush wouldn’t answer: > > “I won’t talk about the past. I’ll talk about the future. If I’m in the process of considering the possibility of running, it’s not about re-litigating anything in the past. It’s about trying to create a set of ideas and principles that will help us move forward.” > > Does Bush really think he’s going to get away with not talking about his brother’s wars – or his tax policies or the surplus he spent into a deficit or the economy that cratered on his watch? And how will the Florida governor square the fact that he rips President Obama regularly – in 2013 he called him a “complete and utter failure” – with his unwillingness to weigh in on the presidency that preceded Obama’s? > > While Bush is talking about creating “a set of ideas and principles” for his foreign policy, I hope journalists remember that he was one of just 25 signatories to the original “statement of principles” issued by the hawkish Project for a New American Century — alongside Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Scooter Libby, Elliott Abrams, Norman Podhoretz, Frank Gaffney and other card-carrying neocons. He didn’t sign subsequent PNAC declarations, but as a first-term Florida governor and son of the last president, Bush’s name stood out on that founding document. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/89 "2015-02-17T21:02:38Z")
Can’t disagree with any of that. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/90 "2015-02-17T21:02:59Z")
Yeah, the family connection is kinda hard to run away from. Not that he won’t try, when it suits him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/91 "2015-02-18T23:13:05Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yeah, the family connection is kinda hard to run away from. Not that he won’t try, when it suits him. It won’t be easy if he keeps doing stupid shit like this: [Jeb Bush taps 21 people who worked for his father or brother to advise him on foreign affairs.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/02/18/jeb-bush-considers-himself-lucky-to-have-family-that-shaped-americas-foreign-policy-from-the-oval-office/) > [@](#): > > But as he prepares to launch a presidential campaign, Bush will be relying on at least 21 veteran foreign policy and diplomatic experts, including former secretaries of homeland security and state, former CIA directors and national security advisers. > > The list includes two former secretaries of homeland security, Tom Ridge and Michael Chertoff, who worked for George W. Bush; two former secretaries of state, James Baker and George Shultz, who served under George H. W. Bush and Ronald Reagan; two former CIA directors, Porter Goss and Michael Hayden, who also served during the second Bush presidency; and former attorney general Michael Mukasey. > > Others on the list include two former World Bank presidents, Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz. There’s also John Negroponte, a former United Nations ambassador and the first director of national intelligence; Stephen Hadley, who was George W. Bush’s national security adviser; and Meghan O’Sullivan, who worked with Hadley and Bush on the second Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/92 "2015-02-19T02:46:13Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > i remember watching an interview with Bill and he went on about “Chelsea has great experience in the private sector, blah blah blah.” > > Yep, McKinsey and a hedge fund(Avenue Capital Group) hired her based solely on merit. > > I don’t want to disparage Chelsea since I don’t know what she was like at work. But she obviously wasn’t hired solely on her personal merits. > > That kind of 5 years in the private sector is the most dangerous kind as she might actually believe she got a real experience and knows her shit. lol. Also, I think that if anybody recalls her whatever it was on the TV screen can tell that she will need about 5 more years in developing a personality. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/93 "2015-02-19T02:55:13Z")
Given that the last two Republicans administrations have been Bush administrations, any Republican candidate who wants to get experienced advisors is going to draw former Bush hands. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/94 "2015-02-19T03:39:23Z")
I wonder if Jeb’s pursuing a run less to really win and more to raise the profile of his son, George P. I wouldn’t be surprised to see George P. running in 8-12 years himself. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/95 "2015-02-19T04:04:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Given that the last two Republicans administrations have been Bush administrations, any Republican candidate who wants to get experienced advisors is going to draw former Bush hands. The problem with that is that so many of those advisers have no Gawddamn business doing anything in the foreign policy arena post-Iraq War. The fact that Jeb is bringing those people back says a lot about his own judgement in regards to placing faith in completely delegitimized foreign policy “experts.” Jeb should not want the American public to be connecting him to the Iraq War, yet he’s doing everything he can to ensure that voters MAKE that connection. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/96 "2015-02-19T04:23:09Z")
That depends on who. The Bush 41 people who opposed the war still smell like roses. It looks like he’s mostly drawing from people who still have good reputations. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/97 "2015-02-19T05:28:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Given that the last two Republicans administrations have been Bush administrations, any Republican candidate who wants to get experienced advisors is going to draw former Bush hands. Exactly. And that fact is a serious problem for Jeb and Jeb alone. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/98 "2015-02-19T06:05:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Bush 41 people who opposed the war still smell like roses. And who would that be? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/99 "2015-02-19T06:33:26Z")
Scowcroft for one. I’m not sure what Baker and Schultz thought, but they weren’t cheerleaders for it. Anyone who wasn’t in GWB’s administration still has a solid reputation. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/100 "2015-02-19T07:54:21Z")
Ages 89, 84 and 94 respectively. Jeb could have the first geriatric cabinet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=6)