# Jeb Bush & the political dynasty issue **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334 "2015-01-20T00:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/101 "2015-02-19T07:57:17Z")
That’s not going to happen. The actual cabinet will contain plenty of new faces, but if you want advice it can’t hurt to consult the elder statesmen who still have a lot to contribute but aren’t up to the day to day job of being a cabinet official. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/102 "2015-02-19T12:25:05Z")
Considering the endless disasters they led us into before, the only reason to consult them would be so you’d know to do the opposite, right? Not all experience is good experience. “Elder statesmen”? That’s what you call the incompetent, the ideologues, and the war criminals if they happen to share your party affiliation? Really? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/103 "2015-02-20T00:45:48Z")
That’s what you think of George Schultz and James Baker? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/104 "2015-02-20T02:19:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s what you think of George Schultz and James Baker? When I think of them I think “Holy Shit! THEY’RE still alive?” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/105 "2015-02-20T02:33:36Z")
This is fun - a Venn diagram of Jeb’s foreign policy and national security advisors, and their links to past GOP administrations: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/02/18/jeb-bushs-foreign-policy-team-is-eerily-familiar-in-1-venn-diagram/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/02/18/jeb-bushs-foreign-policy-team-is-eerily-familiar-in-1-venn-diagram/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/106 "2015-02-20T02:49:37Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > This is fun - a Venn diagram of Jeb’s foreign policy and national security advisors, and their links to past GOP administrations: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/02/18/jeb-bushs-foreign-policy-team-is-eerily-familiar-in-1-venn-diagram/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/02/18/jeb-bushs-foreign-policy-team-is-eerily-familiar-in-1-venn-diagram/) :mad: Paul Wolfowitz, you are . . . Paul Wolfowitz. You do not get to advise candidates, officials or the public on foreign policy any more. You do not get to **have** opinions on public policy any more. Get thee to a nunnery. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/107 "2015-02-20T14:30:39Z")
Why? Is there a nunnery that needs blowing up? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/108 "2015-02-20T15:03:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > This is fun - a Venn diagram of Jeb’s foreign policy and national security advisors, and their links to past GOP administrations: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/02/18/jeb-bushs-foreign-policy-team-is-eerily-familiar-in-1-venn-diagram/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/02/18/jeb-bushs-foreign-policy-team-is-eerily-familiar-in-1-venn-diagram/) Why didn’t the author include links to past Democrat administrations. Michael Hayden, for example, also worked for both Presidents Clinton and Obama. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/109 "2015-02-20T15:11:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :mad: Paul Wolfowitz, you are . . . Paul Wolfowitz. You do not get to advise candidates, officials or the public on foreign policy any more. You do not get to **have** opinions on public policy any more. He, along with GW Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Doug Feith\*, Paul Bremer, Condi Rice, Colin Powell, and the rest of that crew, should be defending their conduct before a court in The Hague, not advising Presidential hopefuls on foreign policy. \*Couldn’t remember his name, so I Googled “dumbest fucking guy on the planet,” which is what Gen. Tommy Franks called him, and his name popped right up. True story! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/110 "2015-02-20T15:26:49Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > He, along with GW Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Doug Feith\*, Paul Bremer, Condi Rice, Colin Powell, and the rest of that crew, should be defending their conduct before a court in The Hague, not advising Presidential hopefuls on foreign policy. > \*Couldn’t remember his name, so I Googled “dumbest fucking guy on the planet,” which is what Gen. Tommy Franks called him, and his name popped right up. True story! Doug Feith (along with a small entourage) was a VIP rider of my submarine (USS Philadelphia – this was probably late 2004) while I was in the Navy. I totally agree with Gen. Franks. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/111 "2015-02-20T16:01:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why? Is there a nunnery that needs blowing up? In Shakespeare’s day, nunnery = whorehouse. Let Wolfowitz go there and bore the whores and leave the rest of the world alone. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/112 "2015-02-20T16:36:11Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why didn’t the author include links to past Democrat administrations. Michael Hayden, for example, also worked for both Presidents Clinton and Obama. :dubious: The statement being tested was Jebbie’s claim that he’s his own man, and we shouldn’t think that just because he’s got the Bush name, he’s going to bring their game back to town. The Venn diagram showing the overlap of his advisors with the Presidencies of his father and brother gives one reason to be skeptical of this claim. (Including Reagan was off point, IMHO.) It would help if you can explain the relevance of including past Dem administrations. What would that do to clarify whether Jeb’s his own man? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/113 "2015-02-20T16:48:45Z")
The point is that none of them are their “own man”. They hire from the same pool of Washington insiders. Hayden served under Clinton, Bush, and Obama, for example. Bob Gates served under Bush and Obama. Chuck Hegel was a former (nominally) Republican Senator. So much for the “Change” we were promised in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/114 "2015-02-20T17:43:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The point is that none of them are their “own man”. They hire from the same pool of Washington insiders. Hayden served under Clinton, Bush, and Obama, for example. > Bob Gates served under Bush and Obama. Chuck Hegel was a former (nominally) Republican Senator. > > So much for the “Change” we were promised in 2008. Yeah, take Obama’s first Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton., and her successor, John Kerry. They served in both Bush Administrations, didn’t they? Ditto AG Eric Holder, Janet Napolitano (Homeland Security), Steven Chu (Energy), Ken Salazar (Interior), Tom Vilsack (Ag), Peter Orszag (OMB), UN ambassadors Samantha Power and Susan Rice, EPA Administrators Gina McCarthy and Lisa Jackson…yep, GOP retreads all the way. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/115 "2015-02-20T18:47:48Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The point is that none of them are their “own man”. They hire from the same pool of Washington insiders. Hayden served under Clinton, Bush, and Obama, for example. > Bob Gates served under Bush and Obama. Chuck Hegel was a former (nominally) Republican Senator. > > So much for the “Change” we were promised in 2008. That Obama was willing to put Republicans in his cabinet is a bad thing? Are you just operating under the assumption that if Obama does it, it must be bad? Bob Gates was a better Sec of Def than Rummy the Dummy. Ditto Chuck Hegel. I’ll take Obama’s cabinet over Bush’s. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/116 "2015-02-20T19:20:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > That Obama was willing to put Republicans in his cabinet is a bad thing? If it’s done for reasons of political pandering, it is a bad thing. > [@](#): > > Ditto Chuck Hegel. What evidence do you have that Chuck was a good SecDef? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/117 "2015-02-20T19:25:37Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If it’s done for reasons of political pandering, it is a bad thing. > > What evidence do you have that Chuck was a good SecDef? Having ONE holdover from the previous administration is pandering? He wasn’t Donald Rumsfeld. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/118 "2015-02-20T19:35:07Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Having ONE holdover from the previous administration is pandering? Obama appointed more than one Republican. > [@](#): > > He wasn’t Donald Rumsfeld. So you have no evidence. That’s what I figured. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/119 "2015-02-20T20:16:25Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What evidence do you have that Chuck was a good SecDef? What evidence do you have that he was not? ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/120 "2015-02-20T20:20:23Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If it’s done for reasons of political pandering, it is a bad thing. I imagine the scale would have gone something like this re: republicans in Obama’s cabinet: 0 - Sign of a Marxist Dictator 1 - Merely a Token 2 or more - Clear Sign of Pandering [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=7)