# Jeb Bush & the political dynasty issue **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334 "2015-01-20T00:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/121 "2015-02-20T20:25:06Z")
“I am my own man (but conveniently, all of my people worked for my brother and father)” doesn’t fly very far with me. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/122 "2015-02-20T21:12:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What evidence do you have that he was not? C’mon **BG** , you should know better. It’s up to the person making the claim, in this instance, that Hegel was a good Secretary of Defense, to back it up. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/123 "2015-02-20T23:28:21Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > C’mon **BG** , you should know better. It’s up to the person making the claim, in this instance, that Hegel was a good Secretary of Defense, to back it up. :rolleyes: I know that, but I thought you must have something specific in mind. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/124 "2015-02-21T00:05:37Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > I imagine the scale would have gone something like this re: republicans in Obama’s cabinet: > > 0 - Sign of a Marxist Dictator > 1 - Merely a Token > 2 or more - Clear Sign of Pandering IOW, no right answer. Guess I don’t need to bother taking this scale seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/125 "2015-02-21T03:28:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In Shakespeare’s day, nunnery = whorehouse. Let Wolfowitz go there and bore the whores and leave the rest of the world alone. What do you have against whores, BG? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/126 "2015-02-23T16:22:19Z")
[Brent Bozell of the Media Research Center](http://www.salon.com/2015/02/19/jeb_ghazi_a_conservative_groups_hilarious_campaign_to_tie_jeb_bush_to_benghazi/) [takes aim at Jeb](http://www.salon.com/2015/02/23/secrets_of_the_right_wing_brain_the_hilarious_wingnut_scheme_to_pretend_jeb_bush_is_a_squishy_liberal/) with an ad that seems to tie him to Benghazi, no really. > [@](#): > > On the surface this would seem to be the message. Jeb is “unelectable” because he was nice to Hillary but Hillary was responsible for Benghazi and therefore Jeb is tainted by his friendly association with her at this event. It’s hard to believe that anyone thinks this very thin association of Bush with Benghazi could possibly be used by, well … anyone. But Bozell is much cleverer than that. He’s making the case that Jeb is unelectable for an entirely different reason. He has taken the _exact_ case against George W. Bush and 9/11 — “ignored evidence,” “refused to act,” “happened on his watch” — and applied it to Hillary and Benghazi. I’m sure many right-wingers have internalized the idea that this event is an act of terrorist aggression that Hillary failed to stop, but when you put it in the context of _Jeb Bush_ it takes on another dimension, doesn’t it? > > What are they really saying with this ad that immediately evokes the comparison of Benghazi with 9/11? They are really saying that Jeb Bush is unelectable _because of his brother,_ not because of any award he gave to Hillary. Bozell isn’t aiming this ad at the rank and file. He’s aiming it at the Big Money Boys whom he obviously feels need to be reminded of the serious baggage Jeb brings with him. > > These movement conservatives really do not want another Bush on the ticket. And the smart ones like Bozell who’ve been playing this game for many decades know how to undermine their own better than anyone. They can’t admit that “W” screwed the pooch, but it is the most powerful line of attack against Jeb and they know it. This is their way of getting that out there. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/127 "2015-02-23T16:27:18Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > What do you have against whores, BG? Hey, they knew the assignment was dangerous when they took it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/128 "2015-02-23T18:47:17Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > “I am my own man (but conveniently, all of my people worked for my brother and father)” doesn’t fly very far with me. Actually, the evidence certainly points to Jeb being his own man. Was GWB like his father as a President? THen it’s logical to conclude that Jeb will be different from his father and his brother. It’s interesting that all those people who worked for Bush 41 and got rave reviews fell flat on their faces under GWB. That would seem to indicate that the Bush “people” aren’t the issue. GWB was the issue. As for Chuck Hagel being a good Secretary of Defense, I think he did a fine job. The administration didn’t think so, because he couldn’t stay on message, and messaging is the be all and end all for these guys. It’s not the war, silly, it’s how you TALK about the war. Hagel talked about it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/129 "2015-02-23T18:49:16Z")
Well, not really. Most of them were _promoted_ under 43. Our foreign policy might not have been an eight-year disaster if James Baker was in charge. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/130 "2015-02-23T18:55:45Z")
I think there’s also the sycophant issue. James Baker wouldn’t have worked for GWB as soon as he found out what kind of conditions he’d have to work under. The only guys who didn’t toe the GWB line were Powell and Armitage and as a result they had little stroke inside the administration. GWB values loyalty above all else and he made sure to select people who would stick with him no matter what. We don’t really know what Jeb’s approach is, at least on foreign policy. Given that Bush 41 and Bush 43 were so different, it might be useful to find out how Jeb’s governing style differed from his brother’s in Texas. That would be if the media was interested in asking the right questions. More likely, they’ll just portray a Bush vs. Clinton race as George vs. Bill. It’s that kind of laziness that gives Jon Stewart as much influence as Bill O’Reilly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/131 "2015-02-23T19:00:09Z")
Powell? _Powell?_ Good God, man, he _debased_ himself out of loyalty! He stood before the UN and lied his ass off, wiped GeeDubya’s butt with his last shred of dignity! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/132 "2015-02-23T19:09:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We don’t really know what Jeb’s approach is, at least on foreign policy. Given that Bush 41 and Bush 43 were so different, it might be useful to find out how Jeb’s governing style differed from his brother’s in Texas. Well, George W. Bush’s approach was to militarily intervene in matters that were left incomplete by the preceding Bush administration. If Jeb Bush continues that trend, I expect the Army to invade AIG and Lehman Brothers. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/133 "2015-02-23T19:47:17Z")
Prudently. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/134 "2015-02-23T20:38:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s that kind of laziness that gives Jon Stewart as much influence as Bill O’Reilly. Why shouldn’t Stewart have as much influence as O’Reilly? They’re both in the news-as-entertainment business, and only the latter invents things out of whole cloth. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/135 "2015-02-23T20:48:13Z")
One’s channel has Comedy in its name and doesn’t pretend to be anything else. The other’s channel has News in its name and doesn’t \*admit \*to being anything else. Different standards do apply, and it’s at their own implicit request, too. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/136 "2015-02-23T21:28:10Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > I imagine the scale would have gone something like this re: republicans in Obama’s cabinet: > > 0 - Sign of a Marxist Dictator > 1 - Merely a Token > 2 or more - Clear Sign of Pandering LOL! Thank you. You just made my day! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/137 "2015-02-23T22:10:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why shouldn’t Stewart have as much influence as O’Reilly? They’re both in the news-as-entertainment business, and only the latter invents things out of whole cloth. Not saying he shouldn’t, only observing that his influence derives from a media that doesn’t do its job very well. Most notably the horse race-style reporting of campaigns that puts more emphasis on gaffes and inspiring speeches than on what the candidates have actually done or plan to do. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/138 "2015-02-23T22:39:40Z")
The “media” isn’t a monolithic entity. If you get your news from sources that put more emphasis on gaffes and inspiring speeches, then you get the news you deserve. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/139 "2015-02-23T22:48:44Z")
The media is varied, but CNN, MSNBC, Fox, and the broadcast networks tend to have the same approach. If you want substance explained, that’s what Vox and TNR(at least before the shakeup) are for. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/140 "2015-05-11T17:23:05Z")
[Jeb Bush says that even knowing what we know now, he would have still invaded Iraq in 2003.](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jeb-bush-iraq-invasion) Is he toast already? Does he just not understand the concept of “what we know now”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=8)