# Jeb Bush & the political dynasty issue **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334 "2015-01-20T00:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/161 "2015-05-12T19:37:14Z")
Seems as if he’s going with [“misheard the question.”](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ex-aide-says-jeb-bush-misheard-iraq-question/ar-BBjFW9y) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/162 "2015-05-12T19:46:29Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Seems as if he’s going with [“misheard the question.”](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ex-aide-says-jeb-bush-misheard-iraq-question/ar-BBjFW9y) Which I think is what actually happened. You can tell by the way he answered it, especially with the Hillary reference, that he meant to answer that based on what we knew at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/163 "2015-05-12T20:52:52Z")
Maybe, but what he, Jeb, would have known at the time was that all the “evidence” for going to war, was coming from inside the Whitehouse. Maybe he meant to say something like, “I saw the evidence that our people made up and I thought it looked very plausible. I might have fell for it myself.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/164 "2015-05-12T20:57:35Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Seems as if he’s going with [“misheard the question.”](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ex-aide-says-jeb-bush-misheard-iraq-question/ar-BBjFW9y) Well, maybe. The source is an “ex-aide”, so he’s apparently not that upset about it. I agree with **hajario** , though. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/165 "2015-05-12T20:59:37Z")
Anything he says that makes people think “He’s just like his brother!” hurts him. Even mentioning Iraq is a blunder, no matter what he says about it. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/166 "2015-05-12T22:44:31Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > “I am my own man (but conveniently, all of my people worked for my brother and father)” doesn’t fly very far with me. It’s rather like Tom Petty’s first “solo” album…just about everyone who played on it was either a Heartbreaker or a Travelling Wilbury. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/167 "2015-05-15T15:22:10Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > [Jeb Bush says that even knowing what we know now, he would have still invaded Iraq in 2003.](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jeb-bush-iraq-invasion) > > Is he toast already? Does he just not understand the concept of “what we know now”? [It’s a bit more complicated, and a great deal worse, than that.](http://www.salon.com/2015/05/15/gops_alarming_iraq_amnesia_jeb_bush_wmds_the_lies_neocons_want_us_to_forget/) > [@](#): > > . . . .In his memoir, he [W] admitted to tactical mistakes, but stated forthrightly: “The region is more hopeful with a young democracy setting an example for others to follow. And the Iraqi people are better off with a government that answers to them instead of torturing and murdering them.” > > He added: “There are things we got wrong in Iraq, but the cause is eternally right.” > > Dick Cheney certainly agrees. Paul Wolfowitz, one of Jeb’s advisors, blasts the aftermath of Saddam’s fall, and the wholly incompetent occupation – the reign of Paul Bremer and Dan Senor and fresh-faced 20-something ideologues from the Lincoln Group trying to govern Iraq – but not the decision to wage war itself. There were lots of things the Bush team might like to do over, but the invasion isn’t one of them. > > The Cheney-Wolfowitz-Rumsfeld faction saw an Iraq invasion as a brilliant stage on which to enact all of their geopolitical goals: It was a chance to replace a Middle East adversary with an ally; to ease our reliance on Saudi Arabia for defense and for oil, and to develop a strategic counterweight to Iran. It was also an opportunity to declare the U.S. would wage pre-emptive war, to showcase our military might in the aftermath of 9/11, and to shore up Cheney’s doctrine of vast, presidential power. The WMD argument was either just one of many concerns, or an outright fabrication. > > **So let’s be fair to Jeb Bush for a moment: he can’t get this answer “right” politically – as in, now that we know there weren’t WMDs, and the aftermath was a shit-show, the Iraq invasion was a “mistake” – because it probably isn’t what he believes. Let’s remember, he was one of 25 signatories to the founding document of the pro-invasion Project for a New American Century in 1998** — alongside Cheney, Rumsfeld, Scooter Libby, Elliott Abrams, Norman Podhoretz, Frank Gaffney and other neocons. Wolfowitz is one of his foreign policy advisors. He has told us that when it comes to Israel, his brother is his top advisor. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/168 "2015-05-15T15:35:02Z")
Let me introduce you all to [Ivy Ziedrich](http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/05/14/ivy-ziedrich-college-student-warms-to-role-as-jeb-bush-critic-on-isis/), the newest hero to those on the left (including yours’ truly) & demon to those on the right. As I’m sure a bunch of you heard, she famously confronted Jeb a few days ago and said to him “your brother created ISIS.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/169 "2015-05-15T15:53:49Z")
I still think Jeb will win the nomination, but I can’t believe he apparently was so unprepared for the Iraq question. How could it not be asked and how could he blow it so badly? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/170 "2015-05-15T16:00:02Z")
I’ve no opinion on the “dynasty” factor, _per se_ (though wonder if there was such a connection when FDR ran?) but the fact the GWB was clearly incompetent may be an argument (“Better safe than sorry”) to avoid Jeb. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The Bush legacy will hurt Jeb among undecideds and moderates, but not among the faithful. After all, while the George W. Bush administration may have been a failure, it isn’t because of anything he did (it couldn’t be, right?), and so they’d happily do all the same things over again. They may not emphasize it when speaking among “liberals” but I think some of Dubya’s incompetence – Katrina, the multi-trillion dollar War against Gog and Magog from beginning to end – is visible even to many in the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/171 "2015-05-15T16:33:15Z")
Bush needs to just realize that for him to have any shot at the White House, he’ll have to give up having an enjoyable Thanksgiving gathering and just say “My brother George made a mistake, we should not have gone to war in Iraq. He’s wrong” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/172 "2015-05-15T18:16:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > They may not emphasize it when speaking among “liberals” but I think some of Dubya’s incompetence – Katrina, the multi-trillion dollar War against Gog and Magog from beginning to end – is visible even to many in the GOP. They view them as mistakes, but only as George W. Bush’s mistakes. He won’t make them again, so it doesn’t matter. They know those things didn’t work, but they don’t know why. This time, it doesn’t matter who we appoint to head FEMA. This time, we can deregulate the banks and they won’t run wild. This time, war in the Middle East will work. This time, we can cut taxes and increase spending. This time, for sure. They’re like Bullwinkle trying to pull a rabbit out of his hat. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/173 "2015-05-15T18:56:54Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > They view them as mistakes, but only as George W. Bush’s mistakes. He won’t make them again, so it doesn’t matter. They know those things didn’t work, but they don’t know why. This time, it doesn’t matter who we appoint to head FEMA. This time, we can deregulate the banks and they won’t run wild. This time, war in the Middle East will work. This time, we can cut taxes and increase spending. This time, for sure. > > They’re like Bullwinkle trying to pull a rabbit out of his hat. Yes, but GWB’s stupidity was so blatant that may will think, even if only subconsciously, “Hey, one of these Bush boys ended up a laughable stooge. Why run the risk of trying another Bush boy?” And they’ll come around to their senses and realize a huge anti-Bush vote will be active. I’m still betting on longshot Romney for #1 slot with Rubio as his running mate. _ **I wish there were more participants for the “Karachi Auction on 2016 Election” thread I’d like to start in Thread Games. Come on, guys! We’d just be playing for play money.** _ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/174 "2015-05-15T19:16:01Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I still think Jeb will win the nomination, but I can’t believe he apparently was so unprepared for the Iraq question. How could it not be asked and how could he blow it so badly? > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Bush needs to just realize that for him to have any shot at the White House, he’ll have to give up having an enjoyable Thanksgiving gathering and just say “My brother George made a mistake, we should not have gone to war in Iraq. He’s wrong” See post #167. I think perhaps Jeb did not realize until recently – perhaps he **still** has not really realized it – that there is a disconnect between what people are expecting him to say about this, and what he believed was self-evident all along: That invading Iraq was the right thing to do and remains so, for reasons having nothing whatsoever to do with those that were used to make the case for it at the time. And I strongly suspect, or rather fear, that he is not the only American who still thinks that, and still thinks it a no-brainer. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/175 "2015-05-15T22:17:37Z")
I would neither vote for nor against a Bush or a Clinton because of the family name. It’s the the person and the policies she/he is associated with. Focusing on J.E.B. I thought he had the GOP nomination sewn up with his huge money grab a couple of months ago. Now I’m not at all certain of that. But if not J.E.B., who? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/176 "2015-05-16T05:32:23Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > I would neither vote for nor against a Bush or a Clinton because of the family name. > > It’s the the person and the policies she/he is associated with. > > Focusing on J.E.B. I thought he had the GOP nomination sewn up with his huge money grab a couple of months ago. Now I’m not at all certain of that. But if not J.E.B., who? And therein lies the problem. I look at that cast of clowns and can’t see a single one who has any chance of surviving serious scrutiny. The flaws are glaring and every single one will either self destruct through terminal stupidity (Carson, Jindal, Cruz and Walker), alienating a crucial part of the base with unpalatable positions (Paul, Rubio and Graham) or having a fatal blemish on their record (Christie and Fiorina). Without Bush in the mix I don’t have a clue who stands a chance of emerging from the primaries with a chance of getting the nomination. I do however anticipate that the chaos will be highly amusing to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334/177 "2015-05-16T05:55:13Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Yes, but GWB’s stupidity was so blatant that may will think, even if only subconsciously, “Hey, one of these Bush boys ended up a laughable stooge. Why run the risk of trying another Bush boy?” And they’ll come around to their senses and realize a huge anti-Bush vote will be active. The whole dynasty issue is a red herring. Everything I said above applies to all (or at least most) of the Republican candidates. If Rubio said “we know Iraq has nuclear weapons, trust me on this, and we must pre-emptively attack. And the oil revenues will pay for the whole thing, so I’m cutting taxes, too” do you think it would hurt him in the primaries? If Mike Huckabee said “we must get rid of the overreaching Democrat regulations that are strangling our financial sector so that the job creators can put America back to work” do you think it would cost him a single vote among the faithful? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeb-bush-the-political-dynasty-issue/710334.md?page=8)