# Jedi Code question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2002, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832 "2002-05-08T01:25:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/1 "2002-05-08T01:25:02Z")
Apparently, the Jedi live under a strict code. My question, wouldn’t the Jedi Code promote fairness and chivalry? “A jedi only attacks in defense”, says Yoda. If so why did Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan bum-rush Darth Maul, who was just standing in an elevator? Luckily, it worked out for Maul, since he had a double-saber to thwart such a double-attack. At the end of AOTC, Anakin and Obi-Wan begin to gang up on old-man Dooku while he’s trying to get away. Why can’t it be mano-y-mano? Bad guys are usually the ones who cheat (like Vader getting his Stormtroopers to help vs Obi-Wan). ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/2 "2002-05-08T03:13:41Z")
Er, if you’re referring to the scene in Amidala’s palace when the big battle is getting underway, I think its pretty clear that Maul’s there because he means business. Unless I’m being a schmuck and forgot a scene. ---
**Author:** ![Yondan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/278dde/32.png) [@Yondan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yondan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/3 "2002-05-08T03:23:32Z")
Lemme introduce you to a little concept we call a SPOILER ALERT ! You **Donkey Dink**! Some of us haven’t seen this movie yet. Oh, that’s right, _it hasn’t even been released yet!_ JEEZ! :mad: :mad: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/4 "2002-05-08T03:29:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yondan \* > \*\*Lemme introduce you to a little concept we call a > > SPOILER ALERT ! > > You **Donkey Dink**! Some of us haven’t seen this movie yet. Oh, that’s right, _it hasn’t even been released yet!_ > JEEZ! > :mad: > :mad: > :mad: \*\* Uh, dude, he’s talking about the Phantom Menace. It’s been out for three years. And it was very clear that Maul meant business. He lit up his lightsaber blades first, then they stepped in to fight him. In Attack of the Clones, Anakin does strike out of anger against Tusken raiders(who killed his mother). He kills the men, women, and children. It’s really the first step down toward the darkside. It’s quite brutal too. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/5 "2002-05-08T03:35:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yondan \* > \*\*Lemme introduce you to a little concept we call a > > SPOILER ALERT ! > > You **Donkey Dink**! Some of us haven’t seen this movie yet. Oh, that’s right, _it hasn’t even been released yet!_ > JEEZ! > :mad: > :mad: > :mad: \*\* Uh, dude, he’s talking about the Phantom Menace. It’s been out for three years. And it was very clear that Maul meant business. He lit up his lightsaber blades first, then they stepped in to fight him. In Attack of the Clones, Anakin does strike out of anger against Tusken raiders(who killed his mother). He kills the men, women, and children. It’s really the first step down toward the darkside. It’s quite brutal too. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/6 "2002-05-08T03:48:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HubZilla \* > > At the end of AOTC, Anakin and Obi-Wan begin to gang up on old-man Dooku while he’s trying to get away. Three things: 1. Sorry for the double post. 2. Sorry for not realizing that he did indeed mention AOTC. 3. Now this is critical… Hubzilla, you are way off on Attack of the Clones. What actually happens is: [spoiler]Dooku is fleeing from the Arena 'cause Yoda showed up with the clones. Anakin and Obi-Wan have to go after him so that he doesn’t get away and go about doing evil elsewhere. They fight him. HE WINS. Yoda comes in, defeats Dooku with his lightsaber(Yoda’s is green). But, Dooku gets away anyway and does go on to do great evil in Episode III(I assume). So anyway, they weren’t going after some feeble old man who was down and out. They were trying to prevent him from getting away. If that is offensive atacking, so would Luke’s blowing up the Death Star in Episode IV be.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/7 "2002-05-08T04:24:30Z")
To raise the average geek level of the discussion, the SW RPG (2nd ed.) states the Jedi Code as: > [@](#): > > There is no emotion; there is peace. > There is no ignorance; there is knowledge. > There is no passion; there is serenity. > There is no death; there is the Force. Unfortunately, that’s not the type of ‘code of chivalry’ I think you were looking for; it seems to be more of a mantra. I can’t believe I went and dug out my book just to answer that… ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/8 "2002-05-08T07:34:18Z")
The main tenet of the Jedi Code is to not let one’s emotions cloud one’s judgement. The Jedi Code isn’t about “fairness”. The part about only attacking in defense is more about ending violence quickly, and not starting violence. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/9 "2002-05-08T07:48:49Z")
Sorry about the spoiler, I figured it would be common knowledge that the good guy and bad guy would have a lightsaber battle. Apparently not. Again, my apologies. I am a donkey dink. Mahaloth: According the novel, Obi-Wan tells Anakin how he plans to work together vs Dooku. But Annie ignores him and charges, much to Obi’s chagrin. So, it was indeed going to be another unfair fight. So, it’s okay for 2 jedis to gang up on one sith apprentice. ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/10 "2002-05-08T12:38:05Z")
We are told by Yoda that Jedi use their power for knowledge and defense. Looking at Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, we see that knowledge and defense mean: Lying to local law enforcement Busting up bar fights Distracting guards Cheating at gambling Badgering a merchant into accepting a deal he already said he doesn’t want Lying (though neither of them use the force to do that) ---
**Author:** ![Yondan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/278dde/32.png) [@Yondan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yondan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/11 "2002-05-08T13:16:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HubZilla \* > \*\*Sorry about the spoiler, I figured it would be common knowledge that the good guy and bad guy would have a lightsaber battle. > > Apparently not. Again, my apologies. I am a donkey dink. > > \*\* Give me a break. It’s not the “good guy-bad guy” thing, it’s that you gave out specific information on a specific conflict that certainly was not common knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/12 "2002-05-08T15:10:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HubZilla \* > \*\*Sorry about the spoiler, I figured it would be common knowledge that the good guy and bad guy would have a lightsaber battle. > > Apparently not. Again, my apologies. I am a donkey dink. > > Mahaloth: > > According the novel, Obi-Wan tells Anakin how he plans to work together vs Dooku. But Annie ignores him and charges, much to Obi’s chagrin. So, it was indeed going to be another unfair fight. > > So, it’s okay for 2 jedis to gang up on one sith apprentice. \*\* Well, It is true that Anakin rushes instead of working with Dooku. Dooku casts that force lightning stuff and knocks Anakin out(conveniently allowing for a one on one between Obi-Wan and Dooku). What I meant is that their whole attack on Dooku is justified just like the whole attack on the Death Star is. Dooku is like a living Death Star, so any tactic is reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/13 "2002-05-08T15:12:31Z")
Up above make that, “Working with Obi-Wan” instead of “Working with Dooku”. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/14 "2002-05-08T16:23:35Z")
This is like watching an Allen Iverson press conference on tape delay. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/15 "2002-05-08T20:59:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Legomancer \* > We are told by Yoda that Jedi use their power for knowledge and defense. Looking at Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, we see that knowledge and defense mean: > > Lying to local law enforcement > Busting up bar fights > Distracting guards > Cheating at gambling > Badgering a merchant into accepting a deal he already said he doesn’t want > Lying (though neither of them use the force to do that) Having watched James T. Kirk fracture the Prime Directive on a weekly basis, I don’t find this to be that big of a stretch. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/16 "2002-05-12T03:52:55Z")
rjung - I haven’t seen Episode II yet, of course (on account of the fact that it hasn’t been _released_ here yet, and I don’t really care for the whole theater environment anymore anyway), but I don’t think many viewers are going to have a big beef with the things you pointed out. Yoda’s ideal of knowledge and defense is just that…an ideal. He can’t control what his charges do in the field. In fact, Qui-Gon’s reputation as someone who rarely went with the program is well-known among the Jedi community in Episode 1. (After the total destruction of the entire Jedi order by E4, of course, all bets are off.) Furthermore, while Jedis may be reluctant to resort to violence, an enemy is an enemy, and mercy is never due evildoers, _especially_ the vile Sith Lords. I’m certain that if there were other Jedis available to take on Maul, they’d join in the battle in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/17 "2002-05-12T04:10:05Z")
Yeah, well, I just so you know… In Episode III, all the Jedi except Obi-Wan and Yoda get killed, and Anakin becomes a Sith lord named Darth Vader. So now I’ve ruined it for you all! HAH! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/18 "2002-05-12T07:29:22Z")
That Jedi code – is it Java, C++, FORTRAN, COBOL, or what? As long as it’s not Visual Basic… **Brrrrrr!** ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/19 "2002-05-12T14:33:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HubZilla \* > \*\*If so why did Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan bum-rush Darth Maul, who was just standing in an elevator? Luckily, it worked out for Maul, since he had a double-saber to thwart such a double-attack. > \*\* It’s not like they hadn’t encountered Maul before. He attacked Qui-Gon out of the clear blue sky, literally, on Tatooine. Qui-Gon already felt that the Queen was in danger. The Council ordered him to accompany her back to Naboo specifically because her attacker might be drawn out. I think it was pretty easy for them to out two and two together and come up with “Get him!” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jedi-code-question/107832/20 "2002-05-12T18:33:36Z")
Also, there’s nothing un-Jedi-like about unfair odds. The idea of a fair, one-on-one fight is that it proves the winner is superior. In other words, it’s about glory. Jedi don’t care about glory, they care about maintaining the peace and protecting the innocent. In this case, the best way to do so is to take down the Dark Jedi as fast as possible, and to hell with any nonsense about a “fair fight.”