# Jeffery Epstein has been arrested for sex trafficking a minor **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2019, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658 "2019-07-07T05:03:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/201 "2019-07-15T20:46:42Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Epstein’s lawyers are arguing that he should be allowed house arrest in his Upper East Side mansion because he has been obeying the rules of his prison release. But isn’t the fact that investigators found tons of videos of underage girls proof that he has, in fact, committed a crime for every day that he was in possession of those illegal materials? > [https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/jeffrey-epstein-bail/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/jeffrey-epstein-bail/index.html) One would think. Also, the fact that investigators found a fake (albeit expired) passport, and lots of cash and diamonds would seem to indicate a predisposition to flee. I’m not the judge hearing the bail motion, obviously, but it absolutely seems to me that there’s no way he should get bail, or even house arrest. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/202 "2019-07-16T02:49:55Z")
Lol, here is KAC hanging around with one Mr Larry Visoski, December 28, 2018: [https://www.instagram.com/p/BOkJSYUjMNA/](https://www.instagram.com/p/BOkJSYUjMNA/) “Who is he”, you ask? Why, none other than one Jeffery Epsteins chief personal pilot: > I mean, I’m sure pedo man was spending a quiet new years at home and gave his pilot the entire christmas-nyd period off, but this is weird coincidence, that his _pilot_ was taking pictures with a woman who is a top-tier power in the current White House, right? Or could it be that Epstein was visiting Trump? I’m sure it’s the weird coincidence thingy. Has to be. Wish someone could explain this to me ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/203 "2019-07-16T03:20:36Z")
This, too, is… I’m sure… mere coincidence. So, on November 7th, an airplane with the “call sign” N212JE, flew to Slovakia, stayed for a couple of days, then flew to Paris, staying there through the 10th. Slovakia is a well-known source for [trafficked young girls.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Slovakia) This plane is owned by the subject of this thread, Mr. Epstein, and possibly piloted by Mr. Visoski, above. Oddly enough, another plane… N284CC, this time… leaves Washington and also flies to Paris, arriving November 10th. This plane is owned by one Thomas Barrack, Trump Inauguration Committee fundraising chair and one of the three people, along with Trump and Epstein, whom Michael Woolf called a “set of nightlife musketeers”, playing together during the 1980s and ‘90s. November 10th… November 10th… where was the President? Oh, that’s right: [That was the day Trump, while in Paris, suddenly cancelled a visit to a US cemetary because of rain.](https://www.apnews.com/52462add34fd45ecb16319b564045d61) [I’m sure this is ALL a BIG coincidence.](https://twitter.com/MacFinn44/status/1061377138845278208?s=19) Right? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/204 "2019-07-16T03:38:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > This, too, is… I’m sure… mere coincidence. > > So, on November 7th, an airplane with the “call sign” N212JE, flew to Slovakia, stayed for a couple of days, then flew to Paris, staying there through the 10th. Slovakia is a well-known source for [trafficked young girls.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Slovakia) > > This plane is owned by the subject of this thread, Mr. Epstein, and possibly piloted by Mr. Visoski, above. > > Oddly enough, another plane… N284CC, this time… leaves Washington and also flies to Paris, arriving November 10th. This plane is owned by one Thomas Barrack, Trump Inauguration Committee fundraising chair and one of the three people, along with Trump and Epstein, whom Michael Woolf called a “set of nightlife musketeers”, playing together during the 1980s and ‘90s. > > November 10th… November 10th… where was the President? > > Oh, that’s right: [That was the day Trump, while in Paris, suddenly cancelled a visit to a US cemetary because of rain.](https://www.apnews.com/52462add34fd45ecb16319b564045d61) > > [I’m sure this is ALL a BIG coincidence.](https://twitter.com/MacFinn44/status/1061377138845278208?s=19) > > Right? Interesting. Hopefully, the press sees that and the pool reporters who were there that day have better notes on what time of the day they did and did not see Trump that day. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/205 "2019-07-16T03:43:06Z")
I’m also searching for corroboration for that last. There is a subset of Twitter which do nothing but track the aircraft of the rich and infamous, so I should find something soonish. (Like, tomorrow - it’s late at night, here!) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/206 "2019-07-16T03:51:50Z")
Here are the logs from [ADSBExchange.com](http://ADSBExchange.com) about this flight. Looks like it checks out. [https://flight-data.adsbexchange.com/activity?inputSelect=registration®istration=N212JE](https://flight-data.adsbexchange.com/activity?inputSelect=registration®istration=N212JE) An article explaining how Epsteins aircraft is being tracked: > **[Flight data from Jeffrey Epstein’s private jets show a lavish travel schedule...](https://www.insider.com/jeffrey-epsteins-private-jet-flight-data-2019-7)** > > Crowdsourced flight data show Jeffrey Epstein traveled almost constantly as the US government built its case against him. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/207 "2019-07-16T04:03:24Z")
It looks like Colony Capital was crashing under the leadership of Richard Saltzman. On the 7th (November, 2018), it was announced that Tom Barrack was returning as CEO to try and save the company. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-07/barrack-returns-to-ceo-role-at-colony-capital-after-shares-fall](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-07/barrack-returns-to-ceo-role-at-colony-capital-after-shares-fall) It looks like this is also the point in time where Trump was deciding who to replace Jeff Sessions with: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-08/acosta-christie-said-to-be-on-short-list-for-attorney-general?srnd=premium](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-08/acosta-christie-said-to-be-on-short-list-for-attorney-general?srnd=premium) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/208 "2019-07-16T04:11:46Z")
Something formatted a little nicer than Twitter for you: > **[A Fun Day in Paris](https://publius2point0.wordpress.com/2019/07/15/a-fun-day-in-paris/)** > > In the news just before November 10, 2018: Flight logs: Tom Barrack November 10, 2018 – November 11, 2018 – Jeffrey Epstein November 7, 2018 – November 11, 2018 – Donald Tru… ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/209 "2019-07-16T05:22:08Z")
Tracking through the flight history, Epstein seems to have a pretty set pattern of going back and forth along this route over the course of a few weeks or months: Paris - New York - Florida - Bahamas Finding him in Paris isn’t too impressive but private flying tends to be very seasonal so let’s check how regularly he is in Paris during the crappy months (November-Februrary). The website doesn’t have winter of this year yet (obviously) and 2017 is back further than they have. From his historic flight logs, here are the dates that he went to LFPB: Feb 10, 2002 (stays 3 days) May 11, 2002 May 30, 2002 June 27, 2002 July 10, 2002 Aug 28, 2002 Sep 29, 2002 Nov 19, 2002 (stays 3 days) Feb 13, 2003 (stays 4 days) Apr 6, 2003 Oct 30, 2003 (stays 5 days) Feb 12, 2003 (stays 5 days) Overall…we would expect him to be there around that time of the year for that period of time. In the case of Barrack, we only have the flight logs from the previous 365 days. He seems to mostly do: Mexico (usually Baja) - LA - Aspen - New York - Middle East It looks like he might have some business in London, but otherwise any stops in Europe seem purely incidental while on the way to or back from the Middle East (excepting once trip to the South of France for vacation). At any rate, outside of the November 10 flight, I don’t see any other trips _to_ Paris. There’s a few stop-overs, but that’s it. Pretty clearly, he went to Paris to meet with someone. It’s just not part of his MO to go _to_ there and come back, otherwise. That Trump took a holiday from Presidenting makes it seem pretty likely that he was meeting with someone, clandestinely, as well. Barrack seems like the most obvious choice. Clearly, it wasn’t to go sneak off and talk to the President of France in secret - since he wasn’t with the President of France. Who else would be in France that he needed to go sneak off to talk to? Epstein could simply have been in the area. The odds are the one of the two following is true: 1. There was some emergency that Barrack needed to talk to Trump about, in secret. This could be anything from finances to Middle East nonsense (leaving Syria?) 2. The crew realized that Trump and Epstein were just going to happen to be together at the same time, and had some things they knew they were going to need to deal with, so Barrack flew over. This could be anything from finances to Middle East nonsense to figuring out a plan for running offense against the coming scandals around Epstein and Saudi Arabian influence. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/210 "2019-07-16T05:28:08Z")
Both of which lead to the question “… and what was so important the President had to cancel an Armistice Day memorial to meet in secrecy?” and one of which leads to the question “… and what was so important the President had to cancel an Armistice Day memorial to meet with a known pedophile in secrecy?” ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/211 "2019-07-16T11:19:22Z")
Curiouser and curiouser. Watching this thread with interest. What happens if Trump is implicated in a pedophilia scandal? Will we see Republicans defending, or at least minimizing, pedophilia? At this point I wouldn’t be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/212 "2019-07-16T12:13:46Z")
Absolutely the Republicans will defend Trump. You don’t go all in on white nationalism if you are going to get squeamish about your leader’s flaws. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/213 "2019-07-16T12:53:09Z")
FAKE NEWS. It never happened! And when it did happen, it wasn’t a crime! And when the crimes were committed, Trump wasn’t there! And when Trump was directly involved… OBAMA! HILLARY! (Splatter, flush, repeat) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/214 "2019-07-16T18:30:28Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Both of which lead to the question “… and what was so important the President had to cancel an Armistice Day memorial to meet in secrecy?” and one of which leads to the question “… and what was so important the President had to cancel an Armistice Day memorial to meet with a known pedophile in secrecy?” So, when Trump says to his Secret Service detail, guys, I’m just gonna go in this back room and meet up with someone, trust me, it will be fine, no need for you to go in there and check things out, they all just agree to it? Hold on, let me check on something. Yep, this is the Pit: You are fucking nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/215 "2019-07-16T18:54:12Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What happens if Trump is implicated in a pedophilia scandal? Will we see Republicans defending, or at least minimizing, pedophilia? At this point I wouldn’t be surprised. When you get down to it, laws against pedophilia are just one more government regulation. I can see them framing it as a choice between freedom and socialism. Abhorrent, but we have seen this movie before. I like to think that some pubbies, somewhere, still have some standards. But what are the odds? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/216 "2019-07-16T19:10:08Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Curiouser and curiouser. Watching this thread with interest. > > What happens if Trump is implicated in a pedophilia scandal? Will we see Republicans defending, or at least minimizing, pedophilia? At this point I wouldn’t be surprised. It’s pretty optimistic to believe that he will be (though, obviously one can always hope that he is caught if he has done something like that). But I do think that there’s something to be said for creating _doubt_. If it was just Epstein then, minus photos, you’re probably never going to get past “yeah, I never saw underaged women with him, regardless of what he might have done on his own”. It’s when you point out that Trump has worked with and been friends with 3 people arrested for child sex trafficking, an additional 2 who seem likely to have been guilty of it as well, that you can hope that people start to ask what the odds of that are? How many people have close to them five pedophiles, not by blood relation? The longer the focus stays on Epstein, the greater the chance that someone will finally make that point in the news and once that starts to become a real question being asked, that’s where Trump finally goes away. It’s unlikely that you’re going to find conclusive proof of any poor behavior on his part towards underaged girls. But that’s not what the media should be aiming for and I really hope that they’ll stop being so straight-up moronic and just make some simple points and ask some real, meaningful questions: Who knows five pedophiles, not by blood relation? Is that something that can really just happen by bad luck? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/217 "2019-07-16T19:16:18Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Both of which lead to the question “… and what was so important the President had to cancel an Armistice Day memorial to meet in secrecy?” and one of which leads to the question “… and what was so important the President had to cancel an Armistice Day memorial to meet with a known pedophile in secrecy?” > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > So, when Trump says to his Secret Service detail, guys, I’m just gonna go in this back room and meet up with someone, trust me, it will be fine, no need for you to go in there and check things out, they all just agree to it? > > Hold on, let me check on something. Yep, this is the Pit: You are fucking nuts. As described above, that _would be_ fucking nuts. But telling the detail to leave the room once they’re both there isn’t implausible at all. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/218 "2019-07-16T19:18:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > …It’s unlikely that you’re going to find conclusive proof of any poor behavior on his part towards underaged girls… Walking in on the Miss Teen USA (or whatever it was) dressing rooms? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/219 "2019-07-16T19:45:21Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > As described above, that _would be_ fucking nuts. But telling the detail to leave the room once they’re both there isn’t implausible at all. It’s quite implausible to me that Trump would set up a _clandestine_ meeting with a known sex offender, on a trip where the whole world is watching his every move. Trump is a moron. He is not a fool. Okay, he IS a fool too, but I hope you get my meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658/220 "2019-07-16T20:00:34Z")
To me, it’s sort of like the Clinton/Loretta Lynch (AG) meeting on that airport runway in broad daylight, but in reverse. There is no way Clinton would have set up or gone to a meeting with her that day to dream up some nefarious plot, the details of which I now forget he was said to have wanted done, literally in broad daylight. He would have called her secretly on the phone, or emailed her, or communicated by carrier pigeon. Not do it where everyone would be aware, and give his enemies ammo to attack him with. No, if Trump wanted to talk with anyone secretly, he would have done it in a way that would be nearly impossible to trace. And I have no good idea how he could have done even that. I am quite comfortable in saying that I _guarantee_ Trump will never be shown to have done any such thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeffery-epstein-has-been-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-a-minor/836658.md?page=12)