# Jehova's Witnesses and Mental Illness **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243 "2014-12-14T22:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/21 "2014-12-31T02:05:55Z")
I knew several from the old apartment complex in North Hollywood, and from first hand experience, was seriously unimpressed. I saw a LOT of “holier than thou” and hypocrisy. Wouldn’t spend a dime on their kid’s birthdays or Christmas or any of that, but they always had a fridge full of beer and cartons of cigs. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/22 "2014-12-31T22:17:34Z")
Most of my father’s family was JWs and I have to give them this: they certainly practiced what they preached, meaning that about half of them were crazy as hell but didn’t take medication or seek therapy of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/23 "2015-01-01T09:14:04Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > For anyone too chicken to click on the link: > > Don’t see this as me castigating you guys, as I jumped to the same erroneous conclusion you did. But this actually is the truth about mental disorders. Even if you disagree with the Bible part, you can’t disagree that many people have found comfort in the Bible. > > Good on you, Jehovah’s Witnesses. For once, I’m okay with saying you’re doing the Lord’s work. Obviously, **Reyemile** didn’t take time to take the pamphlet and read it before making the OP. I haven’t set foot in a church in ten years, but have seen religion turn some very troubled lives around. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/24 "2015-01-01T16:26:49Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Obviously, **Reyemile** didn’t take time to take the pamphlet and read it before making the OP. I haven’t set foot in a church in ten years, but have seen religion turn some very troubled lives around. Please don’t make the mistake of assuming that because JWs are a religion, that they are equivalent to other religions. Most Christian groups, I believe, are sincere in their attempts to do good, though of course they can fall down because of politics, money, or other issues involving power. Still, on the way, they provide comfort and solace and usually practical help for those in need, often community members who aren’t even of their faith. JWs target the lonely and vulnerable and promise them a loving community, and then use social pressure and control to extract money for the Watchtower Society. There is no need to take my word for it: spend some time in a Kingdom Hall. You will find nice people who are honestly glad to have you as a part of their group. Watch with a critical eye, though, and you’ll see a group of people isolating themselves from the larger society and the issues that go along with that. It’s not just another religion: it’s an unhealthy one. JWs are often compared to Mormons, but the two groups could not be more different. Mormons had a problematic past with racism, sexism, and weird individuals high in the hierarchy with too much power, but they are moving past that, and by and large Mormons are good people who make positive contributions to the world. Note that I’m not talking about belief in either case: I don’t care what people’s supernatural beliefs are. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/25 "2015-01-01T18:23:54Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Obviously, **Reyemile** didn’t take time to take the pamphlet and read it before making the OP. I haven’t set foot in a church in ten years, but have seen religion turn some very troubled lives around. And obviously, **russian heel** didn’t take the time to read the rest of the thread. > [@Reyemile](#): > > Plus, preying on the vulnerable conversion is scummy, even if one disguises one’s proselytizing with largely nonspecific (See a doctor! Don’t skip your medicine unless it’s unBiblical!) advice. They’re advertising that they know the “truth” about mental illness. Doesn’t matter if they happen to be recommending conventional therapy; they’re claiming that the bible, specifically their interpretation of it, is a necessary part of ones emotional and mental health. They’re making this claim without clearly identifying themselves as a church (on their signage; the logo is right on the pamphlets). They’re targeting the vulnerable and it’s awful. I do stand corrected on the specifics of their claim, of course. They are recommending medication and therapy, which is a huge step up from, say, Scientology. But they expect people to reject unBiblical medication (whatever that means?) and they expect people to make JW worship an integral part of their recovery. The deserve condemnation. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/26 "2015-01-01T21:23:26Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Please don’t make the mistake of assuming that because JWs are a religion, that they are equivalent to other religions. Most Christian groups, I believe, are sincere in their attempts to do good, though of course they can fall down because of politics, money, or other issues involving power. Still, on the way, they provide comfort and solace and usually practical help for those in need, often community members who aren’t even of their faith. > > JWs target the lonely and vulnerable and promise them a loving community, and then use social pressure and control to extract money for the Watchtower Society. There is no need to take my word for it: spend some time in a Kingdom Hall. You will find nice people who are honestly glad to have you as a part of their group. Watch with a critical eye, though, and you’ll see a group of people isolating themselves from the larger society and the issues that go along with that. It’s not just another religion: it’s an unhealthy one. > > JWs are often compared to Mormons, but the two groups could not be more different. Mormons had a problematic past with racism, sexism, and weird individuals high in the hierarchy with too much power, but they are moving past that, and by and large Mormons are good people who make positive contributions to the world. Note that I’m not talking about belief in either case: I don’t care what people’s supernatural beliefs are. So, you are bigoted against Jehovah’s Witnesses, then? ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/27 "2015-01-01T21:25:20Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > And obviously, **russian heel** didn’t take the time to read the rest of the thread. > > I do stand corrected on the specifics of their claim, of course. They are recommending medication and therapy, which is a huge step up from, say, Scientology. But they expect people to reject unBiblical medication (whatever that means?) and they expect people to make JW worship an integral part of their recovery. The deserve condemnation. Thats a bit of a backpedal, but I will accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/28 "2015-01-01T21:38:08Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > So, you are bigoted against Jehovah’s Witnesses, then? The term “bigoted” seems calculated to dismiss what I am saying. I do believe there is a fundamental and systemic problem with the organization, something that does not apply to other religions that I have a similar level of knowledge about. This is due to the organization’s history, and maintained by the hierarchical structure and culture of the JWs. This includes frank hypocrisy in their promotional materials. All of that is about the culture, not the individuals within it, who naturally encompass the full variety of human attributes. I do not immediately assume that because someone is a JW that they are a bad person, or a hypocrite, or anything negative. People become JWs for a lot of reasons, including being born into it. Nevertheless, the pervading culture is an unhealthy one, as distinct from other religions where unhealthy subcultures are the exception rather than the rule. Edit: I think “biased against” is a more accurate term than “bigoted.” I have a pretty open mind on the subject, but I also have a lot of information and experience. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/29 "2015-01-01T22:37:21Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Obviously, **Reyemile** didn’t take time to take the pamphlet and read it before making the OP. I haven’t set foot in a church in ten years, but have seen religion turn some very troubled lives around. There have also been plenty who were told and were expected to “pray it away” too. Some are fed a pile of fire 'n brimstone guilt and even driven to suicide. ANY asshole can holler “JAYZUS”. That’s an easy cheap way to handle all sorts of things. Without handling them. Then if you aren’t cured and saved, “obviously” your faith wasn’t strong enough. Fake “faith healers” make fortunes of it :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/30 "2015-01-02T05:56:05Z")
The notion that mental illness is caused by spiritual malaise has at least as much grounding in fact as the notion that it is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/31 "2015-01-02T23:05:53Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > And obviously, **russian heel** didn’t take the time to read the rest of the thread. > > They’re advertising that they know the “truth” about mental illness. Doesn’t matter if they happen to be recommending conventional therapy; they’re claiming that the bible, specifically their interpretation of it, is a necessary part of ones emotional and mental health. They’re making this claim without clearly identifying themselves as a church (on their signage; the logo is right on the pamphlets). They’re targeting the vulnerable and it’s awful. > > I do stand corrected on the specifics of their claim, of course. They are recommending medication and therapy, which is a huge step up from, say, Scientology. But they expect people to reject unBiblical medication (whatever that means?) and they expect people to make JW worship an integral part of their recovery. The deserve condemnation. I wasn’t correcting you on specifics. You were 100% incorrect about the entire thing. The truth they recommend is what every other religious organization recommends. They aren’t targeting anyone, but providing them with exactly what they needed. The primary function of a church is to help them out in their times of need. Lots of people have spiritual needs. It’s not preying on anyone to give them instructions that tell them they can go out and get help, instead of thinking that getting help is wrong. It’s a message a huge number of people need to hear. The entire foundation of the idea that they are preying on people requires the pamphlets to be bad. They aren’t. You can have problems with other actions they take, like Dr Drake does. (He’s not alone in thinking their isolationist nature is shitty–though it’s hardly as unique as he thinks.) But if you have a problem with them for this, then I have a problem with you. I’ve got OCD, and it’s because of a religious organization that told my parents the exact same thing these JWs say in their pamphlets that I got treatment. Plus, my own faith has seen me through some pretty dark times, even if it is shaky with OCD being the “question what you believe” disease. But it’s definitely why I’m still here today. Like I said, handing out pamphlets that say the right things is the Lord’s work. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/32 "2015-01-03T01:55:21Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > The notion that mental illness is caused by spiritual malaise has at least as much grounding in fact as the notion that it is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Say WHAT?!? Oh yeah, you’re that otherwise not remarkably nutty person with a bug up his ass about denying that medication that has been shown to help many people actually helps them. Been a while since I saw one of those threads; are you off your meds or something? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/33 "2015-01-04T16:22:35Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Say WHAT?!? Oh yeah, you’re that otherwise not remarkably nutty person with a bug up his ass about denying that medication that has been shown to help many people actually helps them. Been a while since I saw one of those threads; are you off your meds or something? Medication has been shown to alleviate symptoms. Mental illness on the other hand has NOT been shown to be caused by the absence of the chemicals in those medications, and not because the research has not yet proven conclusive. It just flat-out isn’t a viable theory. Mental illness is not caused by “chemical imbalances” as was once theorized. Medication doesn’t work for everyone. Medication tends to lose its efficacy over time, as the brain’s own biochemical output and/or the proliferation of sensitized receptor sites in the brain tend to compensate for the medication, which creates biological dependency on the psych meds as well as lessened efficacy. There’s some indication that being on psych meds correlates with a perpetual inability to become financially self-sustaining and a revolving-door pattern w/regards to institutionalizations when compared with an otherwise-identical control group that refused or otherwise were not on psych meds, and people should not ignore that, but I will admit that’s a difficult thing to study without a chicken versus egg causation problem. (Obviously if you have not properly REALLY controlled for the severity of the psych issue, such that it is the more impaired people in the study who are on the psych meds, you can’t conclude that the psych meds are the reason those people are still not on their feet x years later) I assume that, given my stance, you know damn good and well that I am always and perpetually “off my meds”. I don’t do psych meds, babes, I’m quite happy with my natural brain chemistry. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/34 "2015-01-04T16:55:11Z")
Yeah, “off your meds” was intended as a joking, friendly dig, but I’m only allocated so many emoticons in 2015. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/35 "2015-01-05T23:34:45Z")
Since I’m perpetually humorless and sincere and serious, I’ll make up the difference 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/36 "2015-01-06T00:06:23Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Mental illness is _not_ demonic possession. That is indeed how Jesus diagnosed most cases of it, you know. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243/37 "2015-01-07T03:54:00Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I do believe there is a fundamental and systemic problem with the organization, something that does not apply to other religions that I have a similar level of knowledge about. This is due to the organization’s history, and maintained by the hierarchical structure and culture of the JWs. This includes frank hypocrisy in their promotional materials. > > All of that is about the culture, not the individuals within it, who naturally encompass the full variety of human attributes. I do not immediately assume that because someone is a JW that they are a bad person, or a hypocrite, or anything negative. People become JWs for a lot of reasons, including being born into it. Nevertheless, the pervading culture is an unhealthy one, as distinct from other religions where unhealthy subcultures are the exception rather than the rule. Well said. I think many people who do not know a lot about the JWs make the mistake of thinking they are just slightly quirky Christians. There are many very concerning aspects to the organization. I would highly recommend that anyone who has contact with JWs should take a browse through [http://www.jwfacts.com](http://www.jwfacts.com) to understand what they are really about, especially this part that explains WHY exactly many of us (myself included) consider them a cult: [Discussion of whether the Watchtower Society is a cult, evidence of mind control and its effects.](http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php) They also have a very serious problem within the organization with allowing pedophiles to go unpunished, by the way. Most outsiders don’t know enough about the organization to realize this is going on, and the JWs like to smugly deny that they have these types of problems as proof they are being led by God. > **[Watchtower Child Abuse Paedophile Policy and related court cases](https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/paedophilia.php)** > > Information on historical and current Watchtower Paedophile Policy Here’s a very revealing podcast interview with an attorney who has been involved in some million dollar lawsuits (which he won) against the JWs for covering up childhood sex abuse: [http://www.jwpodcast.org/2014/11/03/s01e01-irwin-zalkin/](http://www.jwpodcast.org/2014/11/03/s01e01-irwin-zalkin/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jehovas-witnesses-and-mental-illness/707243.md?page=1)