# Jenny McCarthy gets a talk show (and the antivax movement) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 18, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833 "2009-05-18T07:28:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/21 "2009-05-18T16:11:10Z")
Quality rant. Well done, sir. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/22 "2009-05-18T16:21:04Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > There’s a 1:1 tax credit on dollars spent on “Eeeeeeevil” I’m interested in buying some antimatter to blow stuff up, which is arguably an evil purpose. How do I get this tax credit? > [@Keweenaw](#): > > Faulty studies aren’t keeping this autism–vaccination connection alive, it’s the observations is of parents with children suffering from autism. Every year around November, I start complaining that the sun is setting too early. Then around January, the sun starts setting later. Obviously, my complaints are the cause of the sun setting later, and I must continue to perform this valuable public service. Ridiculous, of course. But it’s the _exact same logic_ as the parents who see that their kids show symptoms of autism shortly after receiving vaccines and conclude that the vaccines caused the symptoms of autism. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/23 "2009-05-18T16:33:20Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > There’s only one explanation: she’s a cultist of Nurgle, doing His work. Now all she needs is a scythe and a title, something like “the Poxbringer”. Ha, take that Gaiman and Pratchett! Your famine that owned a chain of zero nutrition restaurants was cool and all, but you never in your wildest dreams imagined Porn-Star Pestilence! ---
**Author:** ![Strangelove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5fc32e/32.png) [@Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/24 "2009-05-18T16:35:48Z")
This is why I can’t stand Oprah. She knows that she is a major influence on millions of people. She uses this power to put garbage like the anti-vax movement and Jenny McCarthy in the spotlight, holding her up to be some kind of hero of the people. There will be people who die because of what Oprah has said. She could be using this power for good, but she chooses to feed people’s fear and ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/25 "2009-05-18T17:02:51Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I’m interested in buying some antimatter to blow stuff up, which is arguably an evil purpose. How do I get this tax credit? Well, first your company needs to be in one of the field recognized for evil. Is your company an oil cartel, weapons manufacturer, mortgage lender or member of the medical community? I believe a conglomerate would be eligible as well. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/26 "2009-05-18T17:07:23Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Well, first your company needs to be in one of the field recognized for evil. Is your company an oil cartel, weapons manufacturer, mortgage lender or member of the medical community? I believe a conglomerate would be eligible as well. If not, you’ll need to apply for an Evil Tax Break Exemption under H.R. 192-3939, which are granted in the Court of Public Opinion on a case-by-case basis. See The New York Yankees, Dow Chemical, Jeff Gordon Incorporated, or The Walt Disney Company? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/27 "2009-05-18T17:10:09Z")
> [@Keweenaw](#): > > ‘Shit happens, get over it’, is not going to help parents make informed decisions. That isn’t what we’re saying. What we’re saying is twofold: [ul] [li] **The risks of not getting vaccinated are too high.** These risks involve the resurgence of whooping cough, polio, German measles, smallpox, and other diseases that kill and mutilate, including causing mental retardation, blindness, and permanent paralysis.[/li][li] **There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism.** We’ve done studies over huge numbers of children and huge amounts of data and the link has eluded every single honest study. The studies that purported to show a link, like the Wakefield study, were flawed beyond repair (and, in that case, bought and paid for by lawyers who had been paid to establish a link in court).[/li][/ul] > [@](#): > > Too much anecdotal evidence exists that autism symptoms appear to coincide with vaccination schedules that happen at a certain age. A stronger case can be made for drinking milk causing autism. That doesn’t mean I think milk causes autism. It means correlation and causation must not be confused, especially with lives on the line. When lives are on the line, we rely on careful analysis of the data available to us, which is what a study does. The studies, as I said above, have not shown a credible link. > [@](#): > > Faulty studies aren’t keeping this autism–vaccination connection alive, it’s the observations is of parents with children suffering from autism. In fact, most parents observe no such link: Most children do not have autism, despite the fact the vast majority of them are vaccinated on schedule. The anti-vaccination partisans cannot explain that simple fact. > [@](#): > > Calling them stupid and evil will not get you there. McCarthy likely is not evil. She is certainly ignorant, at the very least. However, the end result of her policies _is_ evil. A resurgence of polio is as evil as anything I could possibly imagine. > [@](#): > > Faced with no other alternatives, is it any surprise that the desperate will grasp onto anything that might appear to explain things? That’s why people killed Jews during the Black Plague. You can understand why we’re all a bit touchy about this kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/28 "2009-05-18T17:12:58Z")
If I complimented her body count, would she hold it against me? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/29 "2009-05-18T17:45:23Z")
> [@Keewenaw](#): > > I can understand how it could be difficult put the results of valid scientific studies over the shared experiences of other parents. Should people be smarter than that? Absolutely. Calling them stupid and evil will not get you there. The OP and others concerned about antivax sentiment are not describing parents of autistic children in this way. “Stupid and evil” are often accurate labels for people like Jenny McCarthy, who’s content to see a resurgence in potentially crippling and fatal infectious diseases since she thinks it would benefit her agenda. For those like Oprah and Larry King who continually give McCarthy a forum (and don’t even give public health experts a fair shot at overturning her drivel) - “stupid and evil” don’t apply. It’s more like “so greedy for ratings that the consequences don’t matter”. Come to think of it, that’s not so far from evil. [Here’s a link](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/05/jenny_mccarthy_shows_off_her_knowledge_o.php) that stomps on more of Jenny’s inanities and provides a link to her fabulous Poop Stories. By the way, studies have shown that children whose parents blame their autism on vaccination have demonstrated warning signs of autism long before they got the shots supposedly linked to the development of symptoms. Experts can pick up on these early indicators of autism in infants who’ve had no time to receive the alleged “overload” of vaccinations that the toxins-on-the-brain crowd are constantly yapping about. ---
**Author:** ![Roulette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Roulette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roulette)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/30 "2009-05-18T17:48:26Z")
Excellent pitting Beef. The problem is an inability to accept and deal with a problem rationally. the pro-disease movement took a correlation and mistook it for causation. (Technically, one guy intentionally altered test results to start the hysteria) Once they made the error, they refused to look beyond it. Blinded to all rational studies to the contrary, they spew their toxic venom out and try to convert people to hysterics. A friend of mine just had twins. He and his wife spent a lot of time wringing their hands trying to figure out what to do about vaccinating their children. The chance of autism seemed to be too real and dangerous. After he mentioned it to me, I directed him to the actual studies and all that disproved it. When all you here is two sides making opposing claims, it’s easy for people to assume they have equal weight behind them. Certainly seeing the subject on CNN or Fox News, the impression is given that they are equally valid points of view, or that both sides have equal amounts of evidence supporting the idea. It’s a better story, but that’s not the same as true. That makes it hard for people like my friend to make a decision. Once you show them the true story of how the anti-vaccination lie started, and all of the evidence that stands behind the science of vaccinations, the undecided are generally motivated to the right thing. The people that have already come down in support of ‘polio for everyone’ have already had a mental break into irrationality. There isn’t much that you can do to actually convince them of anything different. If you could, the aforementioned piles of studies, evidence and even the discovery that the initial report that started it all being based on falsified evidence would have done it already. The worst part about it is that they’re not just deciding to risk their own children. They’re risking everyone’s children. Even if you get the vaccines, there is a minuscule chance you can still get the infection. There are also people that can’t get vaccinated for real medical reasons. That’s mitigated by herd immunity. When people like Jenny get time on Larry King, they spread their lies to a huge swath of people. It take a lot of time by people like me and you to counter that kind of media exposure. And every person that buys into those lies reduces the herd immunity of the entire population. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/31 "2009-05-18T17:55:58Z")
> [@Roulette](#): > > Excellent pitting Beef. > > The problem is an inability to accept and deal with a problem rationally. the pro-disease movement took a correlation and mistook it for causation. There’s not a correlative link, though. There was a study that looked at 500,000 kids - some of whom had autism, most did not, some who had not been vaccinated and most who had, and found no correlation between the rates of autism and the rates of vaccination. The first rigged, small study that was determined to cook the data to get an outcome just hinted that there might be something there that deserved further study - but everything since then has proven it false. > [@Roulette](#): > > When all you here is two sides making opposing claims, it’s easy for people to assume they have equal weight behind them. Certainly seeing the subject on CNN or Fox News, the impression is given that they are equally valid points of view, or that both sides have equal amounts of evidence supporting the idea. It’s a better story, but that’s not the same as true. Yeah, I’ve heard this called a false fairness or false sense of fairness. The media ideally attempts to portray both (or many) sides of an issue - the problem is that they operate on the presumption that both sides have equal footing. When they do a story about a supposed haunted house, they’ll give the “ghosts!” side equal credibility to the “don’t be silly” side. It gives the false impression that the truth is somewhere in between when the reality is that the ghost idiots are completely wrong. Similarly here, the anti-vaccine people are clearly wrong but the news treatment implies the truth is somewhere in the middle. Sort of funny - the media makes such a half ass attempt to be balanced on most things… and then when they actually do attempt to portray a balanced view of an issue, it’s an issue where one side is unambiguously correct. ---
**Author:** ![Rascal\_s\_Mom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a698b9/32.png) [@Rascal\_s\_Mom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rascal_s_Mom)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/32 "2009-05-18T18:49:27Z")
> [@Strangelove](#): > > This is why I can’t stand Oprah. She knows that she is a major influence on millions of people. She uses this power to put garbage like the anti-vax movement and Jenny McCarthy in the spotlight, holding her up to be some kind of hero of the people. There will be people who die because of what Oprah has said. She could be using this power for good, but she chooses to feed people’s fear and ignorance. Precisely! This is the exact reason I hate Oprah. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/33 "2009-05-18T19:50:23Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Good [blog article](http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-listen-to-jenny-mccarthy) about her on Cracked. And I agree with the OP. This is a hijack, but when did _Cracked_ go from a third-rate _Mad Magazine_ imitator to one of the funniest and smartest sites on the internet? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/34 "2009-05-18T20:12:39Z")
I’ve been wondering the same thing, **Miller**. So, with the anti-vaxxers, we have people claiming a conspiracy by doctors and Big Pharm, one for which they cannot show any evidence, but their beliefs are based on a _documented_ conspiracy by Dr Wakefield and some lawyers. Curious. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/35 "2009-05-18T20:18:37Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Yeah, I’ve heard this called a false fairness or false sense of fairness. The media ideally attempts to portray both (or many) sides of an issue - the problem is that they operate on the presumption that both sides have equal footing. When they do a story about a supposed haunted house, they’ll give the “ghosts!” side equal credibility to the “don’t be silly” side. It gives the false impression that the truth is somewhere in between when the reality is that the ghost idiots are completely wrong. Similarly here, the anti-vaccine people are clearly wrong but the news treatment implies the truth is somewhere in the middle. > > Sort of funny - the media makes such a half ass attempt to be balanced on most things… and then when they actually do attempt to portray a balanced view of an issue, it’s an issue where one side is unambiguously correct. See also: the dude who’s convinced that the chances the LHC will destroy the world with a black hole are ‘50/50’ because ‘it will either happen, or it won’t’. Whilst the Daily Show played it for a joke, people in general are just not able to give the right weight to things. The media is responsible for increasing the problem when they should be helping to decrease it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/36 "2009-05-18T20:28:43Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So, with the anti-vaxxers, we have people claiming a conspiracy by doctors and Big Pharm, one for which they cannot show any evidence, but their beliefs are based on a _documented_ conspiracy by Dr Wakefield and some lawyers. Curious. It’s also bizarre that the vaccines-cause-autism crowd praises Wakefield as an unfairly abused heroic figure (whose flawed/cooked research was damaging public faith in the MMR vaccine, even as he was [taking steps to profit](http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm) from his own, supposedly safer measles vaccine). Meantime, Paul Offit, who developed a lifesaving rotavirus vaccine (and is donating all the profits from his recently published book to autism research) is damned by the antivaxers as a profiteer and threatened (to the point where he couldn’t risk doing a national book tour). Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/37 "2009-05-18T20:54:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s also bizarre that the vaccines-cause-autism crowd praises Wakefield as an unfairly abused heroic figure (whose flawed/cooked research was damaging public faith in the MMR vaccine, even as he was [taking steps to profit](http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm) from his own, supposedly safer measles vaccine). > > Meantime, Paul Offit, who developed a lifesaving rotavirus vaccine (and is donating all the profits from his recently published book to autism research) is damned by the antivaxers as a profiteer and threatened (to the point where he couldn’t risk doing a national book tour). > > Go figure. Ahh, I see the problem. You’ve got some logic caught up in there, and it’s gummin’ up the works. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/38 "2009-05-18T21:33:17Z")
> [@Rascal\_s\_Mom](#): > > Precisely! This is the exact reason I hate Oprah. There’s a reason its called the dark side of the force! ducks and runs very fast ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/39 "2009-05-18T21:48:32Z")
**Roulette** Pro-Disease movement? ---
**Author:** ![Roulette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Roulette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roulette)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833/40 "2009-05-18T21:51:16Z")
I don’t think anti-vaxxer is really accurate. They’re fighting to give disease a better foothold in the world. Pro-disease. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jenny-mccarthy-gets-a-talk-show-and-the-antivax-movement/496833.md?page=3)