# Jeopardy discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** reality-or-game-show\ **Created:** [January 4, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207 "2022-01-04T18:16:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/661 "2022-05-17T01:36:03Z")
In an interview, Mattea Roach was asked who the permanent host should be. She said Ken Jennings. So, a very smart woman indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/662 "2022-05-17T02:33:46Z")
Questionable betting, once again, by both the first and second place contestants in FJ. Scores going into Final: Ryan $16,200 Nick $14,600 Divya $4,000 Divya bet $700, missed the question, finished with $3100 Nick bet $6,599, got the correct answer, finished with $21,199 Ryan bet $8,000, got the correct answer, finished with $24,200 Had Nick bet it all, (the logical bet) she would have won. However, had Ryan bet at least $13001, he would have shut out Nick. He got really lucky that Nick didn’t bet more. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/663 "2022-05-17T03:04:08Z")
I think Nick was betting to ensure (no worse than) second place. Had Divya bet everything and been right, she’d have $8,000. Had Nick gotten the question wrong, she’d have finished with $8,001. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/664 "2022-05-17T03:07:17Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I think Nick was betting to ensure (no worse than) second place. You’re absolutely correct. But is betting to ensure second place better than trying to win? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/665 "2022-05-17T03:58:32Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > You’re absolutely correct. But is betting to ensure second place better than trying to win? Nick had $14,600. Had she bet it all and been correct, she would have finished with $29,200. Ryan would have had to bet $13,001 in order to clinch the win. That’s such a common strategy that Nick may have just assumed that Ryan would make that wager. If he had, and been correct, then nothing Ryan did would have made a difference. Ryan needed Nick to be wrong. Then her wager would have won. I still maintain that there is no objectively correct betting strategy for Final Jeopardy. If I knew what the other players wagered, I could make the perfect bet. But I don’t know what they’re going to do; the best I can do is guess. But while I’m doing that, they’re trying to guess what I’m going to bet, and they make their wagers based on that guess. It’s a feedback loop with no end. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/666 "2022-05-17T05:01:22Z")
By the way, was anybody else surprised that “St. Louis Arch” was accepted as the correct FJ response? It’s the Gateway Arch. Would they accept “Seattle Needle” for a clue about the Space Needle? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/667 "2022-05-17T05:54:41Z")
I cannot answer your latter question, but I can answer the former: yes, I was surprised. I learned the name of the structure as “the Gateway Arch,” as St. Louis represented the gateway to the west, back in the day. I suppose that one might say “the Gateway Arch in St. Louis,” to be more specific. But I’ve never heard the structure referred to as “the St. Louis Arch.” ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/668 "2022-05-17T12:39:13Z")
I’ve heard it called “The St. Louis Arch” quite frequently. If anything, “Gateway Arch” is the rare, “nobody ever really says that” name. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/669 "2022-05-17T13:16:35Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That’s such a common strategy that Nick may have just assumed that Ryan would make that wager. If he had, and been correct, then nothing Ryan did would have made a difference. Ryan needed Nick to be wrong. Then her wager would have won. I think you mixed up the names here. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that your paragraph should read: That’s such a common strategy that Nick may have just assumed that Ryan would make that wager. If he had, and been correct, then nothing **Nick** did would have made a difference. **Nick** needed **Ryan** to be wrong. Then her wager would have won. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/670 "2022-05-17T13:18:06Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > That’s such a common strategy that Nick may have just assumed that Ryan would make that wager. If he had, and been correct, then nothing **Nick** did would have made a difference. **Nick** needed **Ryan** to be wrong. Then her wager would have won. Yes, but you didn’t phrase it in the form of a question. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/671 "2022-05-17T13:57:22Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > I’ve heard it called “The St. Louis Arch” quite frequently. If anything, “Gateway Arch” is the rare, “nobody ever really says that” name. Second this. I think of it as “The St. Louis Arch” in my mind, and that’s what I called out when I read the FJ clue. I was vaguely aware of having heard the phrase “Gateway Arch” before, but googling “St. Louis Arch” (with the quotes) produces plenty of hits. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/672 "2022-05-17T15:56:03Z")
For what it’s worth, the National Park Service website has it as “Gateway Arch”. ---
**Author:** ![Steven\_Maven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steven_maven/32/3272_2.png) [@Steven\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steven_Maven)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/673 "2022-05-17T16:30:55Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > But is betting to ensure second place better than trying to win? Personally, I wouldn’t feel much difference between going home with $1000 versus $2000. To me, the goal is to return the next day, and the amount of money is just “icing on the cake.” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/674 "2022-05-17T16:48:14Z")
You’re not betting to ensure second place. You’re betting to ensure that you do _no worse_ than second. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/675 "2022-05-17T16:50:36Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I think Nick was betting to ensure (no worse than) second place. Had Divya bet everything and been right, she’d have $8,000. Had Nick gotten the question wrong, she’d have finished with $8,001. Risking loss of the game to win a thousand extra bucks for second place makes no sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/676 "2022-05-17T17:00:05Z")
I’m a bad strategist- if I was in second going into FJ I’d just bet it all. The memory would be worth more than a few measly bucks. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/677 "2022-05-17T17:11:38Z")
ISTM that if you’re in 2nd place, you have to assume that the only way to win is if the contestant in 1st place gets FJ wrong – the alternatives are just too weird and variable. So #2 bets enough so that if right, they have #1’s current value + $1. Or, like SoR says: you could just go all in and let the chips fall where they may. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/678 "2022-05-17T17:47:00Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I’m a bad strategist- if I was in second going into FJ I’d just bet it all. The memory would be worth more than a few measly bucks. And suppose all three players are wrong. Having bet it all, you lose; but had you bet nothing, it turns out you’d have won. What is that memory worth? Except for the trivial case where the game is a runaway, there is no objectively correct strategy for wagering on Final Jeopardy. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/679 "2022-05-17T17:51:21Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > And suppose all three players are wrong. Having bet it all, you lose; but had you bet nothing, it turns out you’d have won. What is that memory worth? I will have been a man, my son. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207/680 "2022-05-17T19:13:25Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > And suppose all three players are wrong. Having bet it all, you lose; but had you bet nothing, it turns out you’d have won. What is that memory worth? I am wondering what Nick’s memory will be worth. Had she bet it all, she would have won yesterday’s game. You are betting on yourself and your knowledge in FJ. Unless it’s a category about which you know little, I think you must assume that you will get the question right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeopardy-discussion/957207.md?page=35)