# Jeremiah Johnson **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724 "2010-05-08T04:19:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/1 "2010-05-08T04:19:49Z")
Splitting off from [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=561936). I’ve just watched _Jeremiah Johnson_ again. I think the first time I saw it was in the late-'70s. I really liked it at the time. The fishing, skinning the bear, poor Gue up to his neck in trouble… But upon watching it again, 30 years later, and acknowledging the good bits are still there, I now find the style dated. The movie was released in 1972, which some have called 'the last year of the ‘60s’. I find it to be rather introspected. The singing on the soundtrack sounds funny now, much as the synth music in _Gallipoli_ does. I think _Jeremiah Johnson_ is better suited to its time. Still a worthy Western for the video shelf, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/2 "2010-05-08T05:35:17Z")
This is a film I will ever be unable to view objectively. It was my mom’s favorite movie, and when I was told I’d be showing it in high school–I was the projectionist for our weekly movie nights–I calculated I’d already seen it 12 to 15 times. I saw it four more times that weekend, and probably for or five times more in the intervening years. Likely more. My family quotes from it constantly. One of the most frequently used quotes is, “Skin that one pilgrim and I’ll gitcha another.” This is appropriate to any situation in which you’re collaborating with someone on a project. Drying dishes, dyeing Easter eggs, wrapping presents, loading luggage–“Skin that one pilgrim and I’ll gitcha another.” You’d be surprised how frequently this quote can pop up in everyday situations. The other most frequently used quote is, “I \*been \*to a town.” This is appropriate to any situation wherein someone is trying to get you do something you’ve already done and aren’t too keen on repeating. It’s analogous to “Been there, done that,” only more resonant, if you ask me. Lucy: “I promise, Charlie Brown, this time I won’t move the football when you try to kick it.” Charlie Brown, over his shoulder as he walks off the field: “I \*been \*to a town.” I often find myself singing the theme song in the shower, or waiting for a bus. It’s a frequent earworm for me. So while it’s not in my lifetime top ten, it’s something of a comfort movie, and yes I have a copy of it sitting on my shelf right now. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/3 "2010-05-08T13:06:13Z")
I’ve always enjoyed this film. It allowed Redford to shed the pretty-boy image, which he did remarkably well. The supporting cast was outstanding, from Will Geer to the Indian warriors, and the storyline still holds up well. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/4 "2010-05-08T17:09:03Z")
I think the one thing that I remember most from this film is Redford’s delivery of his lines. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/5 "2010-05-08T20:31:32Z")
I just saw this again recently, and I thought it held up remarkably well. I was worried it would be one of those movies that I remembered liking a lot but which didn’t live up to its memory. But it did. The one thing I had forgotten was how deliberately paced the movie is. It’s not boring, but it takes its time about things. There’s a lot of _quiet_ in the movie. I rather like that. It made it more introspective. It also made the bursts of violence more startling and memorable. I also really liked the fact that it didn’t shy away from depicting the warrior culture, and that Jeremiah respected it even as he fought for his life against them. He understood why they were out to kill him, and didn’t even really blame them for it. Still, it was his job to stay alive, so he accepted the situation and simply fought them to the death. Then when the tables turned and he took the side of the avenging party, they even respected him for it. So, it still gets a big thumbs-up from me. ---
**Author:** ![cedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/6 "2010-05-08T21:16:51Z")
One more good qoute: How goes the war? The war? It’s over!! Who won? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/7 "2010-05-09T02:29:37Z")
I’d like to do a crunchy, groovy, movie festival, quad feature with [Little Big Man](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065988/), [Bless The Beasts and The Children](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068286/), [Billy Jack](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066832/), and [Jeremiah Johnson.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068762/). They all have a simlilar “feel” and “grain”. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/8 "2010-05-09T03:15:17Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I often find myself singing the theme song in the shower, or waiting for a bus. It’s a frequent earworm for me. Yeah, I love this movie. The part about the feud with the Crow is partially based on the true story of Liver-Eating Johnson. > **[Liver-Eating Johnson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver-Eating_Johnson)** > > John "Liver-Eating" Johnson, born John Jeremiah Garrison Johnston (July 1, 1824 – January 21, 1900), was a mountain man of the American Old West. > Johnson is said to have been born with the last name Garrison, in the area of the Hickory Tavern near Pattenburg, New Jersey. During the Mexican–American War he served aboard a fighting ship. After striking an officer, he deserted, changed his name to Johnson, and travelled West to try his hand at gold digging in Alder Gulch, Montana Territory. He also... “Liver-Eating Johnson found his way into the mountains, bettin’ on forgetin’ all the troubles he once knew…” Somehow the song doesn’t sound the same that way. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/9 "2010-05-09T03:55:07Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > I’d like to do a crunchy, groovy, movie festival, quad feature with [Little Big Man](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065988/), [Bless The Beasts and The Children](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068286/), [Billy Jack](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066832/), and [Jeremiah Johnson.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068762/). > They all have a simlilar “feel” and “grain”. I’d lump the middle two together for sure and I can see lumping the outer two together, but I wouldn’t lump all four together. I don’t get the quasi-hippy vibe from the westerns that I do from the other two. I _guess_ LBM is kinda anti-establishment, but more in a deconstructive way ( Custer as a strutting jackass and US cavalry as less than heroic )than the rebel-with-a-flower-power-cause of BJ and BtBatC. JJ doesnt strike me as even that. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/10 "2010-05-09T04:13:22Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I’d lump the middle two together for sure and I can see lumping the outer two together, but I wouldn’t lump all four together. I don’t get the quasi-hippy vibe from the westerns that I do from the other two. I _guess_ LBM is kinda anti-establishment, but more in a deconstructive way ( Custer as a strutting jackass and US cavalry as less than heroic )than the rebel-with-a-flower-power-cause of BJ and BtBatC. JJ doesnt strike me as even that. I guess I mean they have a similar grain and feel in their inherent cinematography, direction, and story. They are all fairly long movies, representative of the culmination of a movie and lyrical era, 70through72 and were released consecutively in the order that I listed them in. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/11 "2010-05-09T04:35:14Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I’d lump the middle two together for sure and I can see lumping the outer two together, but I wouldn’t lump all four together. I don’t get the quasi-hippy vibe from the westerns that I do from the other two. but… but, aren’t they all Westerns? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/12 "2010-05-09T05:42:43Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > but… but, aren’t they all Westerns? At a stretch. Too much of a stretch for me, though ;). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/13 "2010-05-09T05:55:26Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > but… but, aren’t they all Westerns? Aren’t pretty much ALL movies westerns, once you get past the costumes and under the skin? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/14 "2010-05-09T05:55:51Z")
No stretch… they are all Westerns in story and style. Really, all of them are classic gunfighter stories to be specific. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/15 "2010-05-09T06:38:53Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > No stretch… they are all Westerns in story and style. Really, all of them are classic gunfighter stories to be specific. Well, sure. Or at least you could certainly make that argument for Billy Jack. But honestly my narrow, parochial, traditionalist definition acknowledges no film that is set after WW I as being an unqualified “Western” :). Films like Outland or Lone Star are more like members of specialized subgenres that I sort of lump separately. But that aside, BtBatC as a gunfighter film? Not really getting that. ---
**Author:** ![DrMemory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DrMemory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrMemory)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/16 "2010-05-09T12:44:56Z")
Two quotes from Del Cue come to mind: 1. Mother Cue raised no dumb children. 2. Take care of your hair! ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/17 "2010-05-09T13:05:54Z")
[del]2. Take care of your hair![/del] “Watch your top knot.” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/18 "2010-05-09T13:21:23Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Well, sure. Or at least you could certainly make that argument for Billy Jack. But honestly my narrow, parochial, traditionalist definition acknowledges no film that is set after WW I as being an unqualified “Western” :). Films like Outland or Lone Star are more like members of specialized subgenres that I sort of lump separately. > > But that aside, BtBatC as a gunfighter film? Not really getting that. Some people categorize movies as Westerns by their props, or setting. I.e., any movie with a lot of dust or cowboy hats in it is a Western. But for me the soul of the Western, so to speak, is the theme of Western Expansion: the clash of civilization with, in general, the unknown–with its attendant fears and dangers–as civilization expands westward. While many, many movies may have one or another of these components, for me a true Western is a Western in both theme and setting. So I largely agree with Tamerlane. I can buy Billy Jack as a subspecies of Western–the dust and hats, of course, but also the clash of civilization and, well, hippies–puts it somewhere within the tradition. I have to scratch my head at BtBatC though; I see the dust, but otherwise it’s a coming-of-age story, isn’t it? Thematically closer related to A Separate Peace or Lord of the Flies, no? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/19 "2010-05-09T13:42:54Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > I’d like to do a crunchy, groovy, movie festival, quad feature with [Little Big Man](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065988/), [Bless The Beasts and The Children](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068286/), [Billy Jack](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066832/), and [Jeremiah Johnson.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068762/). > They all have a simlilar “feel” and “grain”. But if the idea is to have a group of movies based in the _Old_ West carrying 1960’s counterculture freight, _Billy Jack_ and _Bless the Beasts & Children_ wouldn’t fit. Billy Jack, albeit patterned after _Shane_, was a sequel to a biker exploitation film, with rednecks instead of bikers this time, and neither movie was set in the Old West. (You could do the entire Billy Jack saga: _Born Losers, Billy Jack, The Trial of Billy Jack,_ and _Billy Jack Goes to Washington._ Maybe one of those Hindu yogis who stare into space for years and years could endure it) For the “Hippes in the Old West” festival, could you substitue _McCabe an Mrs Miller_ and the (awful, awful) _Soldier Blue_ instead? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724/20 "2010-05-09T16:30:28Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > For the “Hippes in the Old West” festival, could you substitue _McCabe an Mrs Miller_ and the (awful, awful) _Soldier Blue_ instead? \*\*\*Greaser’s Palace * * * [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-johnson/538724.md?page=2)