# Jeremiah Wright Steps In It Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393 "2009-06-10T23:32:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/101 "2009-06-11T19:09:07Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > You are being overly generous with your interpretation. If he’s referring to specific people, and he knows they are Jewish, then he knows their names, which he could have used intstead. Or he could use their job titles. That at least would have been relevant to his complaint. There’s no earthly reason he would use a descriptor for any reason other than he thinks it’s relevant to his point. Therefore, he thinks the fact that they are Jewish is relevant. Racism. I’d like to give an example of why I think the relevance matters. My employers are Jewish. Let’s say I went home today and said to my husband, “My boss made me work through lunch today.” Now let’s say I went home and said to my husband, “That Jew made me work through lunch today.” Which is a relevant descriptor in the context of the person in question making me work through lunch? The fact that she’s my boss, or the fact that she’s Jewish? How would being Jewish be relevant in any way to such a statement? I defy **Diogenes** to come in here and say to my (virtual) face that the second statement isn’t racist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/102 "2009-06-11T19:18:13Z")
It isn’t PROOF of racism. I didn’t say that Wright’s statement CAN’T indicate antisemitic feelings, I’ve been saying it’s not _ipso facto_ PROOF of them. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/103 "2009-06-11T19:19:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It isn’t PROOF of racism. I didn’t say that Wright’s statement CAN’T indicate antisemitic feelings, I’ve been saying it’s not _ipso facto_ PROOF of them. You always require ipso facto PROOF before you make judgements about things? I’ve read an awful lot of your posts here, and I’m going to go out on a limb and say you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/104 "2009-06-11T19:24:15Z")
I need to be pretty sure if I’m going to call somebody a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/105 "2009-06-11T19:25:29Z")
Can you be \*reasonably \*sure to \*suspect \*somebody’s a racist? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/106 "2009-06-11T19:26:58Z")
People aren’t saying they _suspect_ Wright of being a racist, they’re declaring it as outright fact. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/107 "2009-06-11T19:27:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I need to be pretty sure if I’m going to call somebody a racist. Would you think I was a racist if I said, “That Jew made me work through lunch today?” What _possible_ other interpretation would you have for that? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/108 "2009-06-11T19:27:19Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m actually relieved that it’s not just me who’s having problems getting to Obama because of the Jews. > > Two months ago: we’re all set to go bowling, we’re not even out of the car at the alley when the call comes on speaker phone from someone who identified himself as “Gary” but I swear was Woody Allen saying “Hey, Barry, I’ve been thinking, you know how I said it was okay if you acknowledged Palestine’s right to exist as an independent state? Well I got to thinking, it’s really important that you not quote me because my mom and my aunt Josephine would never ever understand and well I don’t mean to impose but if you were to do that well, I just really couldn’t have you in my house on family poker night and I don’t want you to think that’s racist… hey… pick up if your there cause I need to talk to you about the other thing but I don’t want anybody to hear…”. So I go rent my shoes, get my ball, and Barack comes in and says “Sorry Jon, he’s… well, you know how he is” (which point of fact I don’t). “I’ve gotta go see him because otherwise his aunt is going to have it all over the press. You know the Jews went from picking rags to owning every daily rag more than a century ago so… next week, I promise.” > > Next week comes, no call, nothing. Then we’re supposed to go see the new _STAR TREK_, but I get a call when I’ve ALREADY BOUGHT TICKETS FOR ME, BARACK, AND MICHELLE! that “sorry, Rahm is… well, I’ve never seen him like this, he keeps saying that I like you better and maybe I should just make you Chief of Staff and… well, uh, he took a bunch of pills- they looked like Flinstones to me but he says they were downers, and he’s swearing that he’s going to call up the New York Post and tell them Michelle’s been having an affair with Bill Clinton which is bogus but they’d eat that up, I’m sorry, but, another time.” > > Last Thursday we were supposed to play Wii Deerhunting. I get the game all set up, call at the last minute, not even from Barack Obama himself! “Mr. Sampiro… this is Esther… Barack can’t come ovah today because he needs to check my pilot light and while he’s here I wanna talk to him about my friend Myrna’s disability check cause I can’t get anywhere down at the Social Security but maybe he can help. And the kids who go up and down blasting their stereos so loud, I think some of 'em are colored cause they listen to that Enimem so I’m gonna see if he’ll talk to 'em or have ‘em taken into the army or something. How are you doin’? Did I tell you what the doctor said about my appendix? I need a TRANSPLANT!” And this is a woman I haven’t even spoken to before, but she feels that familiar. > > Then the ads for the “B’nai Brith One Night Only- FIDDLER ON THE ROOF starring Harvey Fierstein as Tevye and special guest appearance by President Barack Obama as Fyedka” fliers all over town, with the big “Proceeds to benefit Mrs. Esther Mandelbaum’s Appendix Transplant Fund and Israel”- on what was incidentally the same night that Barack and I were supposed to go see UP! > > Well, one thing I’ll give McCain- if he said that he’d be over for chili and grilled cheese sandwiches and to watch a Hugh Grant filmfest, he’d by God be there. (Oh, he might bring that frigid wife along, one time he brought Todd Palin who spent the whole evening trying to get me to agree to marry his daughter (“Just be til the campaign’s over, bud!”), but he came. The Jews didn’t keep him on a leash. I just wanted to say that this is quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever read on this board and I’ve been coming back to it all day when I need a giggle, thanks !!! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/109 "2009-06-11T19:30:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I need to be pretty sure if I’m going to call somebody a racist. “That Black sure makes bad Presidential decisions.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/110 "2009-06-11T19:35:28Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Would you think I was a racist if I said, “That Jew made me work through lunch today?” What _possible_ other interpretation would you have for that? That you’re clueless? That you’re a _religious_ bigot, not a racist one? That you’re (crassly, but not necessarily maliciously) distinguishing him from other non-Jewish superiors? I have heard older members of my wife’s family and my own making references like “that Chinaman at the bank,” or “those coloreds down the street,” without any consciously derogatory intent at all. I need more than a single reference to “them Jews” to conclude that antisemitic bigotry is the only possible implication. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/111 "2009-06-11T19:38:02Z")
“Hey now, don’t accuse him of possibly being a racist! He’s possibly a bigot!” ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/112 "2009-06-11T19:38:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That you’re clueless? That you’re a _religious_ bigot, not a racist one? That you’re (crassly, but not necessarily maliciously) distinguishing him from other non-Jewish superiors? > > I have heard older members of my wife’s family and my own making references like “that Chinaman at the bank,” or “those coloreds down the street,” without any consciously derogatory intent at all. I need more than a single reference to “them Jews” to conclude that antisemitic bigotry is the only possible implication. The context is important to the implication, though, Diogenes. A context that implies a Jew is cheap or overly-controlling in goverment is a context that is highly loaded…way beyond a casual descriptor. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/113 "2009-06-11T19:42:39Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > “Hey now, don’t accuse him of possibly being a racist! He’s possibly a bigot!” Those things are not synonomous, but I wasn’t taking about Wright anyway. I was talking about **Sarah’s** hypothetical question about a different scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/114 "2009-06-11T19:44:09Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > The context is important to the implication, though, Diogenes. A context that implies a Jew is cheap or overly-controlling in goverment is a context that is highly loaded…way beyond a casual descriptor. The context is personal resentment towards specific people he thinks are keeping him away from Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/115 "2009-06-11T19:46:35Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Obama disavowed Wright when it became clear Wright stepped in the crazy himself (and, let’s face it, when it became politically inconvenient to adhere to him). Personally, I take that as a sign that the good reverend got wackier and further afield the more attention he drew. Really? Here’s what Obama said on March 18 of last year: “I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe. **These people are a part of me**.” And here’s what he said a few weeks later on April 29: “When I say I find these comments appalling, I mean it. **It contradicts everything that I am about and who I am** , and anybody who has worked with me, who knows my life, who has read my books, who has seen what this campaign’s about, I think, will understand that it is completely opposed to what I stand for and where I want to take this country.." That’s quite a 180 there. What do you think Wright said that was so offensive in the meantime? I guess Wright _all of a sudden_ became a racist, huh? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/116 "2009-06-11T19:47:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Those things are not synonomous, but I wasn’t taking about Wright anyway. I was talking about **Sarah’s** hypothetical question about a different scenario. The scenario isn’t that different…it’s a situation where a reference to being Jewish is in a highly loaded context. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The context is personal resentment towards specific people he thinks are keeping him away from Obama. And…how is their being Jewish relevant to that context? ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/117 "2009-06-11T19:52:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The context is personal resentment towards specific people he thinks are keeping him away from Obama. Why didn’t he just call these “specific” people by their proper names as opposed to using the word Jews? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/118 "2009-06-11T19:52:21Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Really? Here’s what Obama said on March 18 of last year: > > “I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe. > **These people are a part of me**.” > > And here’s what he said a few weeks later on April 29: > > “When I say I find these comments appalling, I mean it. **It contradicts everything that I am about and who I am** , and anybody who has worked with me, who knows my life, who has read my books, who has seen what this campaign’s about, I think, will understand that it is completely opposed to what I stand for and where I want to take this country.." > > That’s quite a 180 there. What do you think Wright said that was so offensive in the meantime? I guess Wright _all of a sudden_ became a racist, huh? :rolleyes: Well, he said it. But he didn’t really mean it. Either time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/119 "2009-06-11T19:54:48Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I need to be pretty sure if I’m going to call somebody a racist. You need to be pretty sure they aren’t Democrats. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/120 "2009-06-11T19:55:52Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > The scenario isn’t that different…it’s a situation where a reference to being Jewish is in a highly loaded context. Your hypothetical was virtually devoid of context, and if it wasn’t different, you wouldn’t have needed to posit a hypothetical. > [@](#): > > And…how is their being Jewish relevant to that context? It’s not. That still doesn’t mean it has to be racist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393.md?page=7)