# Jeremiah Wright Steps In It Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393 "2009-06-10T23:32:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/121 "2009-06-11T19:56:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You need to be pretty sure they aren’t Democrats I’m not a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/122 "2009-06-11T19:58:28Z")
> [@rolandgunslinger](#): > > Why didn’t he just call these “specific” people by their proper names as opposed to using the word Jews? Fewer syllables? Is racism the only conceivable implication? ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/123 "2009-06-11T19:59:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fewer syllables? > > Is racism the only conceivable implication? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/124 "2009-06-11T20:08:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Your hypothetical was virtually devoid of context, and if it wasn’t different, you wouldn’t have needed to posit a hypothetical. You’ve never heard the stereotype of Jews being cheap or shrewd in business? Maybe the reason you don’t get this is because you are fortunate enough not to have been exposed to much racism in your life. See, that’s why calling someone a Jew is offensive in that context. If I referred to a person being Jewish in the context of him throwing a bar mitzvah party for his kid, that’s not offensive. If I refer to a person as my boss in the context of them making me work through lunch, that’s not offensive. In each case, the descriptor is relevant to the statement. If I refer to a person by their ethnic group in the context of them doing something that is a negative behavior that is stereotypical of that ethnic group, that IS offensive. Do you get it now? > [@](#): > > It’s not. That still doesn’t mean it has to be racist. So you think that Wright just kind of stumbled on that particular descriptor, not that he believed it to be relevant? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/125 "2009-06-11T20:19:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fewer syllables? > > Is racism the only conceivable implication? Pretty much, yeah. I’m as liberal as they come, but I find it bizarre the way you’re twisting logic into pretzel shapes to avoid calling this fool on his racist remark. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/126 "2009-06-11T20:20:11Z")
Oh **Diogenes** , the board’s timeless toy. Wind him up and watch him go! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/127 "2009-06-11T20:24:22Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I’m as liberal as they come, but I find it bizarre the way you’re twisting logic into pretzel shapes to avoid calling this fool on his racist remark. Did you read his contributions to GD during election season? This is nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/128 "2009-06-11T20:36:59Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > You’ve never heard the stereotype of Jews being cheap or shrewd in business? You didn’t say your hypothetical boss was cheap or shrewd, you said he made you work through lunch. > [@](#): > > Maybe the reason you don’t get this is because you are fortunate enough not to have been exposed to much racism in your life. I’m from Louisiana. I’ve seen plenty. > [@](#): > > See, that’s why calling someone a Jew is offensive in that context. If I referred to a person being Jewish in the context of him throwing a bar mitzvah party for his kid, that’s not offensive. If I refer to a person as my boss in the context of them making me work through lunch, that’s not offensive. In each case, the descriptor is relevant to the statement. If I refer to a person by their ethnic group in the context of them doing something that is a negative behavior that is stereotypical of that ethnic group, that IS offensive. Do you get it now? I didn’t make the connection that a boss making you work through lunch was supposed to be a signifier that he was cheap. > [@](#): > > So you think that Wright just kind of stumbled on that particular descriptor, not that he believed it to be relevant? It’s possible that he thinks it’s _politically_ relevant if he thinks they’re Zionist zealots. It’s possible that he mentally catalogs people into their respective racial/minority groups as a lot of older people seem to do in my experience, even if they hold no racial animosities. Put a gun to my head, I think it was probably a cheap, easy way to lash out at them in a fit of personal bitterness. It doesn’t have to mean he hates all Jews. I’m not saying it wasn’t classless and dickish. I think it’s kind of like me calling Rush Limbaugh “that fat fuck.” The “fat” part should be irrelevant. It’s just the easy, bottom of the barrel place to go. I admit I wouldn’t go to that place with race. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/129 "2009-06-11T20:37:48Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > That’s quite a 180 there. What do you think Wright said that was so offensive in the meantime? I guess Wright _all of a sudden_ became a racist, huh? :rolleyes: In the meantime, Wright got a big ego and decided to make a few high-profile comments disparaging Obama and pouring on a little more of the crazy. Thus, Obama went from: “Hey, he’s a little nutty but otherwise a good guy, I love him, what can I do?” to: “alright, I’ve had enough, screw him and his B.S.” I don’t see any contradiction in that. Had Wright kept his mouth shut following Obama’s first statement, he probably wouldn’t have ever made the second. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/130 "2009-06-11T20:44:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Did you read his contributions to GD during election season? This is nothing. Not to defend **Dio** , but considering your own ‘contributions’ during the primary season, if I were you, **Elvis** , I wouldn’t want to point anyone to those threads. Edit (oh, we’re in the pit!) In other words, **Elvis** , you were an obtuse jackass in nearly every one of those Dem primary threads. So much so that Dio’s comments in this thread are not even in the same league. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/131 "2009-06-11T20:45:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You didn’t say your hypothetical boss was cheap or shrewd, you said he made you work through lunch. > > I’m from Louisiana. I’ve seen plenty. > > I didn’t make the connection that a boss making you work through lunch was supposed to be a signifier that he was cheap. See, that was my point. If you just say that your boss made you work through lunch, then you wouldn’t think so, would you? But call him a Jew in that context and it takes on a new implication, _because of pre-existing stereotypes against Jews_. If you can’t see that, then I am fresh out of ways to explain it to you. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/132 "2009-06-11T20:45:35Z")
If you had anything more substantive to say about “my contributions” than that, you’d be the first. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/133 "2009-06-11T20:48:37Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > See, that was my point. If you just say that your boss made you work through lunch, then you wouldn’t think so, would you? But call him a Jew in that context and it takes on a new implication, _because of pre-existing stereotypes against Jews_. If you can’t see that, then I am fresh out of ways to explain it to you. It was an implication that went right past me. I don’t associate _any_ boss making people work through lunch as being indicative of cheapness. Your reference of the "cheapness’ sterotype was not made clear in your hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/134 "2009-06-11T20:52:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you had anything more substantive to say about “my contributions” than that, you’d be the first. How soon you forget. Oh well, considering all of the dire predictions you made about what would happen if Obama won the nomination didn’t come true, I guess there isn’t really a need to go back down that road. Anyway, rehashing the past in this thread would be a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/135 "2009-06-11T20:58:52Z")
IOW, you ain’t got shit but can’t admit it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/136 "2009-06-11T21:15:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was an implication that went right past me. I don’t associate _any_ boss making people work through lunch as being indicative of cheapness. Your reference of the "cheapness’ sterotype was not made clear in your hypothetical. Okey doke, I’ll use a more obvious example: Me: “My boss didn’t give me a raise this year.” Me: “That Jew didn’t give me a raise this year.” What is the implication of my using the descriptor “Jew” instead of “boss” there? NOW am I racist? And in my first example, if I’d ever given you other indications that I’m prejudiced against Jews, would that make you any more predisposed to assume that I meant something different with my remarks? What if Wright were to say that the Jewish vote is controlling him (in the same interview, no less)? Would that give you even a sneaking suspicion that Wright might have meant a little more by that descriptor than what you say? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/137 "2009-06-11T21:17:53Z")
Your new hypothetical would make me strongly suspect antisemitism, yes, but it’s not analogous to Wright because his comment was not made in conjunction to any stereotypes, nor does he have a history of making racist or antisemitic remarks. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/138 "2009-06-11T21:26:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Your new hypothetical would make me strongly suspect antisemitism, yes, but it’s not analogous to Wright because his comment was not made in conjunction to any stereotypes, nor does he have a history of making racist or antisemitic remarks. Dude, he said that the Jews were controlling Obama _in the same interview_. Is that another stereotype you are not familiar with? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/139 "2009-06-11T21:32:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Your new hypothetical would make me strongly suspect antisemitism, yes, but it’s not analogous to Wright because his comment was not made in conjunction to any stereotypes, nor does he have a history of making racist or antisemitic remarks. Well, it was. He said > [@](#): > > …the Jewish vote, the AIPAC vote that’s controlling him, that will not let him send representation to the Darfur Review Conference, that’s talking this craziness on Israel because they’re Zionists, they will not let him talk to somebody who calls a spade what it is. Ethnic cleansing is going on in Gaza—the ethnic cleansing of the Zionists is a sin and a crime against humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393/140 "2009-06-11T22:59:22Z")
“Zionists” is not synonomous with “Jews.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremiah-wright-steps-in-it-again/499393.md?page=8)