# Jeremy Clarkson is a pig **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814 "2022-12-19T22:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/221 "2023-01-26T23:43:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If you say plainly misogynistic things, you are a misogynist. This whole idea of “you can’t judge me because you can’t truly see into my heart” is nonsense. Yes, if it walks like a duck, shits like a duck, it’s a duck. This guy spews misogynistic shit, thus he’s a misogynist, up and until he meaningfully apologizes and never repeats the behavior. I won’t hold my breath, considering his apparent history. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/222 "2023-01-27T00:10:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > [Top Gear: Jeremy Clarkson's biggest controversies - in quotes | Jeremy Clarkson | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/25/top-gear-jeremy-clarkson-biggest-controversies-quotes) > > There’s some real doozies in there, but wait, _it’s a joke, son_ This bit is interesting: > fine.” [The BBC was forced to apologise to the Mexican ambassador](http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/feb/04/top-gear-mexico-insults-sorry?intcmp=239) but also defended the show’s presenters, saying national stereotyping was part of British humour. So refreshing that they admit that racism is a fundamental part of British national culture. That’s the first step. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/223 "2023-01-27T00:55:31Z")
Being a celebrity asshole would not sell if only the audience wasn’t composed largely of nobody assholes. Since it does sell we therefore know a lot about the composition of the audience. Human nature; it’s why we can’t have nice things. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/224 "2023-01-27T07:25:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If you say plainly misogynistic things, you are a misogynist. This whole idea of “you can’t judge me because you can’t truly see into my heart” is nonsense. > > Indeed, it is a particular sickness of modern American evangelical Christianity, but it has spread into many other areas of society and culture. Actually I think your totalitarian approach is the true modern sickness and readily exacerbated by social media. By your standard everything uttered by anyone, whether in jest, by accident or in complete innocence _becomes_ an accurate and unshifting depiction of real views and intent. That has the benefit of simplicity certainly, but I also think that is harmful nonsense and clearly wrong, as anyone who has ever interacted with a real person who has said the wrong thing would know. Intent matters _massively_, to think it doesn’t is willfull idiocy and doesn’t stand up to the firsts interaction with the real world and real people. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/225 "2023-01-27T07:36:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Intent is impossible to judge on the internet. You can’t really do it the way you can in true interpersonal interactions. Especially not in the printed word, unless a person explains everything fully. So, if you require intent to judge things, you’re not going to ever achieve that on the web. Instead, everyone (you included) have to judge what people actually write and go from that. To be 100% sure of intent is not possible, but people are able to explain their intent in words and I’m happy to take them at their word until shown otherwise. What other choice is there until an offline interaction is possible? This is why quoting people accurately and checking you are understanding them correctly is important. I think it was clear what your intent was in calling for people to purposefully create “horrible” or “awful” jokes about me. You seemed to explain it quite fully, but I can’t be completely sure, was it sarcasm? was it a joke itself? Or was it what it appeared to be on the surface? a mean-spirited and ill-intended call for people to flood my posts with jokes that you hope are deeply offensive to me? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/226 "2023-01-27T08:23:01Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Or was it what it appeared to be on the surface? a mean-spirited and ill-intended call for people to flood my posts with jokes that you hope are deeply offensive to me? It was that, because you’re an asshole and you’ve been one for a long time. And you love to defend other assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/227 "2023-01-27T08:29:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It was that, because you’re an asshole and you’ve been one for a long time. And you love to defend other assholes. so not impossible to divine intent on the internet at all then? And yes, I’ll defend arseholes when they are not being arseholes and happily condemn them when they are. I know that many people can’t, or don’t want to make that distinction but I think treating people fairly on the things that they say and the views that they hold is quite important. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/228 "2023-01-27T08:32:02Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > so not impossible to divine intent on the internet at all then? Not past what they write. I made my intentions pretty clear. You see a misogynist shitbag and think, “That’s my guy!” I mean, you’re probably right about that, but we’re sure going to judge you on it. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/229 "2023-01-27T08:50:32Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Not past what they write. I made my intentions pretty clear. Yes, sometimes intent is clear from the words used. It’s right that we pay attention to them. Like Clarkson’s apology. I find it completely sincere and believeable. I suspect you don’t. > [@Atamasama](#): > > You see a misogynist shitbag and think, “That’s my guy!” Absolutely not, I wouldn’t want to spend any time with Clarkson at all, he’s not “my guy”. Defending someone in a specific situation is not the same as supporting them. Though I’m sure your black and white thinking dictates that it must be. I despise Trump with the power of a thousand suns yet if he were misquoted or misrepresented I’d defend him. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/230 "2023-01-27T09:13:22Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Like Clarkson’s apology. I find it completely sincere and believeable. Why? I mean, he has to make one of the things every few months. What makes _this_ one sincere and believable? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/231 "2023-01-27T09:38:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Why? I mean, he has to make one of the things every few months. What makes _this_ one sincere and believable? Because it is longer, detailed and more personal than any I’ve heard from him previously. It reads to me like “off screen” Jeremy and not sarcastic “on screen” Jeremy. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/232 "2023-01-27T09:48:14Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I said nothing about inconsistency but I certainly think it is unfair to summarise when there is no need to. A moment ago, you said _“I very much doubt that you read it in an open-minded way and your paraphrase confirms it”_. When I ask you what I got wrong in my paraphrase, nothing apparently comes to mind, and it’s just the fact that I summarized at all that’s the problem. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > OK, if I’m wrong about that and you do actually like him then I stand corrected. But of course assuming thoughts and motivations seems to be a very common path to take when it comes to Clarkson himself. Thank you for admitting that you got that guess about my motivations wrong. But, FTR, I have only judged Clarkson on his words. I have not tried to read beyond them. His “apology” is just a “sorry you misunderstood me” rather than any actual contrition, it’s right there in black and white. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/233 "2023-01-27T10:27:33Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > One other thing to mention is that not all changes of mind are visible. I commented in a thread about the value of NFL teams. But before I did so I confess that I was convinced that various EPL and European teams were valued much more highly than the NFL teams. Before stating that I did a bit of research and found out I was wrong. > I didn’t post anything about that, that isn’t interesting, so that change of mind is never seen and that happens all the time. As it should, Sure, but this is just about being mistaken about an objective fact. That’s not really the point at issue here. The point at issue is that there’s an observable pattern that, when you are engaged in a discussion about whether a statement or person is racist or sexist, typically you are found arguing that it is not, and typically there are a lot of people arguing against you. There are various outcomes of these discussions but one that does not seem to crop up very often is you thinking or saying: “Maybe I’m not so good at detecting sexism as I think; maybe the fact that so many other people see something I do not is evidence that my tools for deciding whether a statement is sexist aren’t as accurate as other people’s; maybe I have something to learn here.” And it may indeed be the case that all those other people are wrong and you are right! Every time. But there is a very definite pattern here. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/234 "2023-01-27T11:06:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Because it is longer, detailed and more personal than any I’ve heard from him previously. It reads to me like “off screen” Jeremy and not sarcastic “on screen” Jeremy. What disingenuous bullshit. Just how long a litany of appalling comments followed by insincere notpologies does a racist and misogynist have to be guilty of before you’d stop trying to excuse their behavior? Intent isn’t a factor in establishing whether the objective semantic content of a person’s words is racist or misogynist. But judging intent certainly matters in how harshly we should condemn them. And how could it be clearer that there is deliberate intent in Clarkson’s consistent schtick over many years of making deliberately racist and misogynist comments over and over again for shock value, to up his ratings _with people like you_? If it’s all about intent, what information do we have to assess yours? Your pattern of behavior is becoming equally apparent. You don’t care at all about the specific facts. You clearly have an agenda to defend _every_ racist and misogynist that hits the headlines because the world has become “too politically correct” for your liking. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/235 "2023-01-27T11:10:09Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > When I ask you what I got wrong in my paraphrase, nothing apparently comes to mind, and it’s just the fact that I summarized at all that’s the problem. I think your paraphrase casts the apology in the worst possible light. I read it more charitably than you do and if I _had_ to paraphrase it I’d do so differently. but as a preference I’d avoid doing so at all and point people to the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/236 "2023-01-27T11:10:13Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > It reads to me like “off screen” Jeremy and not sarcastic “on screen” Jeremy. More like “finally brought to heel by his publicists and lawyers” Clarkson, but you do you. Me, I just remind myself that it’s offscreen Clarkson that beats up producers, and thinks-he’s-inaudible-onscreen Clarkson that uses the word _nigger_. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/237 "2023-01-27T11:13:22Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The point at issue is that there’s an observable pattern that, when you are engaged in a discussion about whether a statement or person is racist or sexist, typically you are found arguing that it is not, I argue that it is wrong to automatically assume that it _must_ be and I stand by that. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/238 "2023-01-27T11:17:44Z")
Built into this is an assumption that the people who do think a given statement is sexist are merely automatically assuming it without having put the thought in and only you have the insight and intellectual fortitude to really engage with the complexities of the matter. Another option is that the people who identify the statement as sexist aren’t automatically assuming anything and are just better than you at recognising sexism. Is that an option you’ve ever given serious consideration? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/239 "2023-01-27T11:25:52Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > You clearly have an agenda to defend _every_ racist and misogynist that hits the headlines Not at all. I don’t jump into every thread on related subjects in order to defend the people accused. That much is readily provable by looking at all the relevant threads. Your perception here is wrong. I pretty much never post in threads where I consider the accusation is clear and obvious. that doesn’t interest me an I have nothing to add to the rightful condemnation that others voice. I do concentrate on those cases where I think the outrage is misplaced, unhelpful, just plain wrong or the other side of the case needs to be made. So if I am taking part in discussions on those subjects then it is pretty much certain I’ll be taking the opposite view to the majority. I’m perfectly comfortable with that. Yes that does sometimes mean defending people I don’t like or views I don’t care for. Again, I’m perfectly comfortable with that. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814/240 "2023-01-27T11:41:22Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Built into this is an assumption that the people who do think a given statement is sexist are merely automatically assuming it without having put the thought in Yes, those are the threads that I typically engage with. Do you accept that that can happen? > [@Stanislaus](#): > > Another option is that the people who identify the statement as sexist aren’t automatically assuming anything and are just better than you at recognising sexism. Of course that’s a possibility. It is also a possibility that the definition of those terms expands beyond what is reasonable and sensible. Again, I’m unlikely to be visible in threads where the former is valid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeremy-clarkson-is-a-pig/976814.md?page=13)