Jeremy Clarkson vs the Ford F-150

This episode was one of the reasons I stopped listening to Planet Money. I’d like to think that they are a bit more knowledgable about the other shit they report on but that episode was such an amazing collection of ignorance that I lost faith in the rest of their reporting. It’s almost as if the entirety of their research was watching that one episode of Top Gear (a shitty, fictional car show about a dumb racist).

Americans have better access to a wider variety of trucks than any other consumer market in the world. This should hardly be surprising since gas is very cheap and there aren’t any onerous taxes on vehicle size or displacement, unlike the majority of other countries. There are also virtually no barriers to entry for carmakers if they want to sell cars in the US. The Chicken Tax is a thing that exists, but its existence is all but irrelevant to any carmaker worthy of note - Toyota and Nissan and until recently Honda all sold trucks here with no issue, yes they would have to build them in the US but Toyota and Nissan have been doing that for decades, and in any case, you don’t have to build them in the US, only within NAFTA, and virtually all carmakers make cars in Mexico nowadays anyway, because Mexico is virtually the cheapest place in the world to make modern cars.

If there is one thing that could be tenuously construed as being a law that limits access to trucks, it’s the EPA’s relatively strict regulations on diesel NOx emissions. Therefore, an emissions compliant diesel engine in the US is quite expensive to produce, and a small truck with a diesel engine simply cannot be produced economically and sold at a competitive price. Even then, this is more because competition in the US has driven the price of gas powered trucks to very low levels. In most other countries, even diesel trucks with compliant exhausts would probably still sell due to the expense of competing cars and trucks in general. Most trucks and commercial vehicles in other countries are diesel powered and spew carcinogenic exhaust into their atmospheres because their countries are shitty and corrupt. However this is changing - even France and other European countries are improving their emissions regulations to match that of the US.

What truck sold in other countries are people pining for, exactly? The Toyota Hilux? The Tacoma sold in the US is essentially the same or better thing, and cheaper than virtually any other market. You can’t get a diesel for the reasons outlined above but you wouldn’t want one anyway, certainly not a Toyota diesel which are widely known to be junk. One reason Toyota was never quite as popular in Europe as in most other places was their lack of ability to build a good diesel engine. The global Ford Ranger? The current model is virtually the same size as the F-150 and the F-150 is a much better truck for a lower price. Australian car-based Utes? There’s no way you could build them for a competitive price anywhere outside of Australia, which is a closed market with closed market pricing.

I guess it can’t hurt to be able to buy those very basic Chinese “breadvans”, Wuling Sunshine, etc. I doubt any Americans would be interested in them though. IIRC FAW-Foton makes a licensed copy of a previous generation Toyota Hilux (they claim, it looks more like an Isuzu/Chevy Colorado to me) with a Cummings 4 cylinder diesel and a Borg Warner transfer case, which could be interesting, but the retail price in China is the equivilant of something like $30k USD. Possibly this is due to taxes or some other regulation in China where everything is more expensive than the US, so if they could bring it to the US for $15k they would probably have a winner.

Like I said,this is why I hate Top Gear. People think watching the show means they know everything about cars.

I don’t even think hes a journalist, he used to be but now he’s a comedian basically. I don’t watch top gear for the car reviews, I watch it for the banter between the three of them and the challenges. Having said that his review of the F-150 makes perfect sense for the UK market, which is what it was aimed at, it was on Top Gear UK not Top Gear US. You’d be an idiot to buy an F-150 in the UK with it’s pricing there and the much better alternatives available from European and Japanese brands. Eg Mercedes Benz Sprinter Vans are fairly cheap in the UK, and are more commonly used by tradesmen who want a step up from a Ford Transit.

I don’t know what the differences are between the Sprinter and Transit are in Europe, but the ones I’ve been in are more or less equivalent. The only thing a Sprinter gets you more of is rust.

I don’t see why not. Clarkson’s column for the Times after his suspension was headlined “When a fat man gets suspended there’s only one thing to do – get cooking”

Clarkson is paid to review cars and to be Brit-centric, obnoxious, and funny, an ass. He just happens to be an entertaining one.

And just because Ford sells 700,000 F150’s doesn’t mean it isn’t an objectively crappy vehicle that, outside of people who use them for actual work, many owners choose for reasons other than its driveability. I bet the largest load most of them get is to haul a bag of mulch and a couple plants home for the garden.

As documented in this pathetically desperate commercial (not for a Ford, but for a truck).

it isn’t “objectively” crappy just because you don’t like it. Do you even know what “objective” means?

I never said I didn’t like the F150, I said it was objectively crappy unless you actually planned on using it.

Pick-ups are great in their place, that place being a farm, ranch, or any other job that involves the truck being used to its limits, the paint scratched, and the bed all beat to hell.

There is also a status or image to owning a truck. If you are coming to quote me a bid on roofing my house, your truck better look like you do some work. Drive-up with it all pristine and I am going to wonder how involved you really are with your business. Lots of hat, no cattle.

I can objectively show you that for a large number of pick-up owners, where the driving is on paved highway, an occasional stop to get two bags of mulch and a couple of flower trays, and buying something that can’t fit in a car once per year or so, that a pick-up is quantitatively and objectively a useless vehicle to own. Simple to work up costs of ownership vs costs of ownership plus an occasional rental in the two cases.

Qualitatively and subjectively, the stock and trade of reviewers like Clarkson, who the hell cares as long as you are happy with what you drive. Hell, Clarkson believes that Formula 1 is actual racing. How much can his opinion really be worth?

Well, a mechanical item gains something from ubiquity that art cannot. If I stand in my front yard, I can see two recent F150’s. If I stand there for an hour, I’m likely to see one of every generation of Ford light truck since they introduced the F-series nomenclature (ok, I’d probably have to stand out there for a day to see one of the first two generations, but I live on a busy street). The fact that it’s a known commodity to junkyards, parts suppliers and mechanics makes it a much cheaper vehicle to maintain. The larger the supply of vehicles that will need work, the more likely the mechanic will have the tools necessary to work on it (esp. things like advanced diagnostic systems).

It’s unlikely that we know who I’m quoting, and they probably didn’t mean it this way, but: “Quantity has a quality all it’s own.”

If people buy them for the “wrong reasons”, how do you decide? Two vehicles ago I had a 3/4 ton truck that was used as a truck pretty often. It was an inheritance, so it’s initial cost to me was nothing. It got about 23mpg on diesel, but had maintenance issues (heh, it wasn’t a Ford), and I ended up needing a truck less and less. I sold it for a car that got 38mpg doing 85, but cost more than the truck did in repairs (heh, still not a Ford). After that I settled for a different import (nope, not a Ford) that gets 24mpg, but is cheap to maintain (the parts are very common across the line), has AWD (the previous car was difficult in ice, and my job is kind of like the postman’s – only I work at night) and will probably last until the previous car is rust. I think that in the end, I chose right vehicle to go with. If you aren’t me, (or a hypothetical truck owner), how do you know I chose it for the “wrong reasons”?

I’ll admit to thinking the guy who has the truck that has it’s frame jacked up above my roof is an idiot, but I can’t pretend that I know he’s objectively wrong for owning the vehicle. But, the fact is: they may be ferrying that vehicle to the one place it makes sense to operate it. I don’t think less of the guys with race cars on trailers, and they suck up about as much gas ferrying their cargo. That pickup or SUV you see might not be loaded today, and surely some are driven around mostly empty for the majority of the time. But I can’t see any sane person driving them around and sucking up gas any longer than they think they have to. As was observed, they don’t really drive great (although they drive better than my '65 Ford (yeah, I was off by a year earlier)), they don’t get great mileage, and they stink on ice.
ETA: Hhehehehe, ok, nevermind. You understand what a truck is, even if Clarkson doesn’t .

I know lots of full sized pick up truck owners. This describes none of them.

Most work in the trades, it’s true, but the others all haul boats or campers, use them on the weekends at second homes in the mountains, plow with them, or use them for recreation gear (bikes/boats/climbing/etc). My experience may not be universal, but I don’t know anyone who has a full size pickup for show around here (New England).

Having lived in Texas and New England, I’d say you’re both right. Dallas suburbs and apartment complexes when I lived there were full of shiny show pick-ups, particularly among younger males; up here in NE I don’t know that I’ve seen any of that.