Jeremy Corbyn: Next UK Labour Party Leader?

[Stanislaus]

@Novelty_Bobble

Not to hijack too much, but where in the legislation does it say this? I read the guardian breakdown of the bill and found myself nodding along to all of the main points but it never mentioned those. Overall the bill seemed sensible to me as someone who is only ever inconvenienced by strikes but those highlighted issues seem ridiculously specific and authoritarian to be included. Can you point to the relevant text?

I’m going from the FT and Telegraphsummaries:

@FT

These are tough suggestions, and arguably out of proportion to the problem in hand. More alarming are proposals that threaten basic rights of assembly and free expression. Workplace pickets would be allowed only if supervised by named, authorised individuals, who specify in advance where and when they intend to picket, with how many people, and even whether loudspeakers or banners will be used. Picket supervisors would be expected to wear an armband or badge for ready identification.

@Telegraph

Unions which break strict rules on their use of Twitter and Facebook or fail to follow rules on placards and use of loud hailers could face fines of up to £20,000 for each beach under a “draconian” new anti-strike plans.

Looking at the text of the bill and various consultation documents, it seems that these regulations will be applied by changing the Code of Practice on Picketing and making it legally enforcable:

After section 220 of the 1992 Act insert—
“220A Union supervision of picketing
(1) Section 220 does not make lawful any picketing that a trade union
organises, or encourages its members to take part in, unless the
requirements in subsections (2) to (8) are complied with.
(2) The union must appoint a person to supervise the picketing.
(3) That person (“the picket supervisor”) must be an official or other
member of the union who is familiar with any provisions of a Code of
Practice issued under section 203 that deal with picketing."

[Gyrate]

@Sam_Stone

I don’t see as big a gap between fascism and socialism that you apparently do.

Perhaps that says something about you.

When people talk about nationalizing the railways to make them run better, the obvious comparisons come to mind.

Obvious but not particularly relevant, particularly to those who are aware the UK railways were still government owned and run as little as 20 years ago, and that the country was not a fascist regime then either (the Sex Pistols’ assertions notwithstanding).

So you’re saying an effective campaign slogan for Corbyn would be, “Vote for me - because there’s not a chance in hell that my batshit-crazy ideas will be implemented.”

Fair enough.

I’m saying there’s no point running the 2020 campaign now since it’s five years away and the man’s only been in charge for four days.

Still, it’s been fun watching the newspaper lose their shit over trivialities. “He didn’t sing the National Anthem! He left his top shirt button undone!” This is “flag lapel pin” level of idiotic superficial outrage. Never mind that there was a major vote in Parliment yesterday - let’s put ShirtButtonGate on the front pages.

Let’s see how PMQs goes (which is on right now, I think).

[Stanislaus]

Looking at the PMQs liveblog on the Guardian, it seems Cameron used this not to attack Corbyn (what need now?) but to lay out his own soundbites about how Britain’s problems can only be solved by growing the economy. A process which culminated in this gem:

@Guardian

So let’s change public attitudes to mental health, but we won’t be able to do that without a strong economy, he says.

Don’t think about whether it makes sense, just admire the message discipline.

[Baron_Greenback]

@Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party

Actually, I read that the effective Conservative majority is likely to rise as the DUP are so incensed by Corbyn’s stance on Northern Ireland that they’re unlikely to vote with Labour on anything.

Well, they voted with Labour last night on working tax credits.

[Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party]

Shows how much political journalists know :smack:

[6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast]

@Sam_Stone

I think a drooling chimpanzee could have provided better governance.

As an aside, and as an Australian, I can tell you we had one of these. With proper monkey ears, simean gait, and raw onion eating ability.

It didn’t work. And then a silver fox killed it.

[Fuzzy_wuzzy]

@Baron_Greenback

Well, they voted with Labour last night on working tax credits.

@Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party

Shows how much political journalists know :smack:

On many issues the DUP will be against the Government and will vote with the opposition. But you can be sure Ulster Unionist MP’s will have be extremely wary of helping Corbyn in any meaningful way. When the going gets tough for the Government on any vote the likelihood of Ulster MP’s abstaining has risen markedly.

[up_the_junction]

@Sam_Stone

I the history thank you. Yes, nationalization really took off in the 40’s with the British Transport Commission, but there were more nationalizations in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. But the 70’s represented pretty much the nadir of crazy leftism in Britain.

The what? I think you’ll find “nationalization really took off in the 40’s” with … healthcare. You may have heard of the NHS.

Then of course there has been the huge nationalisation programmes of 2008, when socialist principles and ownership had to save the capitalist banks from collapsing the world economy.

The “nadir of crazy” rightism.

[Ryan_Liam]

@Stanislaus

The Conservative government has a working majority of 16.

On Monday, they passed a Trade Union Bill which, among other things, would prevent striking employees from posting on Facebook without giving two weeks notice in writing, make it illegal to bring a loudhailer to a picket without government approval and require picketers to wear armbands for ease of identification. Many Tory MPs were deeply uneasy about these restrictions. The FTconsidered them unnecessary, counterproductive and authoritarian.

On Tuesday, the Tories cut tax credits for the working poor: £3million families whose work doesn’t pay will be £1000 - c. £20/week - worse off next year. Incredibly, this comes at a time when the Tories are working hard to brand themselves as the real party of the working class. Again, many Tory MPs were uneasy about the impact of these changes on their constituents.

Both votes passed with a majority of more than 30.

The pro-Corbyn message was that Burnham, Cooper and Kendall were too afraid of the media and too out of touch with the people Labour is meant to represent to provide effective opposition to these measures. Broadly, I agree - there’s been a terrible reluctance to challenge the Tory narrative on welfare, or stand up for the basic concept of organised labour.

But we have Corbyn. And although nobody could be expected to overturn a Commons majority, what we were promised is principled opposition, broadcast loud and clear so that people know that there’s an alternative and that Labour is on the side of the workers.

Every headline in the papers, and the lead story on the news this morning, was indeed about Corbyn. And how he didn’t sing the national anthem at the Battle of Britain remembrance service. Which compared to both the stories above is meaningless chaff. It was also utterly predictable, given his history and press antipathy for him. He voluntarily created smoke-screen for the people and policies he opposes so deeply. There is no point in returning to ideological purity if the leader you choose is incapable of getting his message across through

If most of the press is against him it wouldn’t of mattered anyway, they’d of accused him of being insincere in his principles. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for the first 2 months.

[Malden_Capell]

As a monarchist and someone not terribly sure of Corbyn, I have to say this whole anthem thing is fluff and nonsense. I respect Corbyn’s right to stand quietly during the anthem and not sing what he does not believe. That’s his right.

It’s the same for the controversy over whether he will kneel before Her Majesty at the Privy Council. Personally, I could not care less. I am pretty sure Her Majesty doesn’t care, either. Make it optional.

[Fuzzy_wuzzy]

@Malden_Capell

As a monarchist and someone not terribly sure of Corbyn, I have to say this whole anthem thing is fluff and nonsense. I respect Corbyn’s right to stand quietly during the anthem and not sing what he does not believe. That’s his right.

It’s the same for the controversy over whether he will kneel before Her Majesty at the Privy Council. Personally, I could not care less. I am pretty sure Her Majesty doesn’t care, either. Make it optional.

It is as much fluff and nonsense as your average voter wishes to make of it imo. If some voters wishes to view the anthem/kneeling issue as Corbyn’s own brave personal stance on the outdated concept of Monarchy then that is fine for them. If other voters wish to point out the problematic position of Corbyn baulking at singing the national anthem, but quite happy to call terrorists “friends” then that is also a quite legitimate stance to take too.

[up_the_junction]

But he’s a mad leftie. Not one of us. He’ll bring the country down. Etc.

I see the Telegraph is prying into his private life - from 40 years ago.

Desperate, desperate stuff from the upstanding Barclay brothers.

PMQs was fascinating. Osborn is like a shrewd Roman Senator.

[Lord_Feldon]

@Malden_Capell

As a monarchist and someone not terribly sure of Corbyn, I have to say this whole anthem thing is fluff and nonsense. I respect Corbyn’s right to stand quietly during the anthem and not sing what he does not believe. That’s his right.

Did he sing other songs and not the national anthem or something? Because even for someone with Corbyn’s record my first assumption would be that he doesn’t do singalongs, not that he was deliberately snubbing the national anthem. You could write a hymn specifically to comport with my beliefs and standing quietly would be the limit of my participation.

[Malden_Capell]

He didn’t sing, just stood there quietly. I think it’s pretty clear it was a refusal to sing a song which adulates Her Majesty, but honestly, I think that’s a fair stance to take - republicanism is a minority concern in this Kingdom, but that doesn’t mean we should force those of tender consciences to do more than necessary obeisance to the monarch if they don’t feel comfortable with it.

As a monarchist, I happily sing the anthem; but I have trouble with the ‘God’ bit, as I am atheist. However, personally, I sing it anyway. But that’s just me.

[up_the_junction]

@Lord_Feldon

Did he sing other songs and not the national anthem or something? Because even for someone with Corbyn’s record my first assumption would be that he doesn’t do singalongs, not that he was deliberately snubbing the national anthem. You could write a hymn specifically to comport with my beliefs and standing quietly would be the limit of my participation.

A hymn?

“snub” seems a bit tabloid. He’s a republican so I guess you have that very typical issue of the Royals being wrapped around national issues - if the fine ditty been about ‘Britain’ or the UK it would be a simple matter, but it’s not; the so-called national anthem is a celebration of monarchy.

Corbyn does, however, seem to be playing the game. I feel sure he has a fine singing voice. Goodness knows we need as many monarchy themed singalongs as possible.

[up_the_junction]

@Malden_Capell

As a monarchist, I happily sing the anthem; but I have trouble with the ‘God’ bit, as I am atheist. However, personally, I sing it anyway. But that’s just me.

It’s bonkers isn’t it; how many people in this society believe that a/the God can/would/might intervene to keep Queenie alive/immortal? And yet we’re expected to (a)stand up (b) belt that out like it makes any kind of sense and (c) not be embarrassed.

[Gyrate]

THY CHOICEST GIFTS IN STORE /
ON HER BE PLEASED TO POUR /
LONG MAY SHE REIGN /
MAY SHE DEFEND OUR LAWS /
AND EVER GIVE US CAUSE /
TO SING WITH HEART AND VOICE /
‘GOD SAVE THE QUEEN’

National anthems are inherently ridiculous anyway. And it’s still better than the “Star-Spangled Banner”.

[Ryan_Liam]

Whats the probability of the media barrage against him provoking widespread sympathy (Maybe even support?) from the general public?

[Gyrate]

@Ryan_Liam

Whats the probability of the media barrage against him provoking widespread sympathy (Maybe even support?) from the general public?

To some extent this has happened, but it may have already peaked and in the long run will only wear him down.

[up_the_junction]

Agree, it’s definitely happened. Conservative twin track strategy is to be respectful and courteous personally, and have the media rip into him like rabid dogs.

You can see in the Prime Minister’s decision to allow Corbyn to re-define PMQs - the Leader of the Opposition deciding how the game is played! - they are treading very, very gingerly atm.