# Jeri Ryan and Kate Mulgrew **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081 "2016-08-07T21:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/41 "2016-08-12T08:35:05Z")
Voyager has some good episodes. But, they were overshadowed by many more poor ones. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/42 "2016-08-12T13:09:30Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Sorry the worst episode was when Janeway and Paris were “evolved” into lizards and had babies together. IMO, that’s even worse than Spock’s Brain. What’s the consensus on the Warp 10=lizard “evolution” being the worst ST episode of all the series? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/43 "2016-08-12T13:16:01Z")
gets my vote ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/44 "2016-08-12T14:04:15Z")
I actually like _Spocks Brain_. Its in the so bad its good category and the actors nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/45 "2016-08-12T14:11:09Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > gets my vote Same here. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/46 "2016-08-12T14:28:14Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > IMO, that’s even worse than Spock’s Brain. > > What’s the consensus on the Warp 10=lizard “evolution” being the worst ST episode of all the series? I remember the ep when the crew got devolved into various critters. Oh wait. That was a TNG ep, wasn’t it? I don’t remember this lizard episode. Huh, thought I’d seen them all. Maybe my brain blocked it out. I saw Spock’s Brain when I was a kid, and didn’t think it was worse than any other ep. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/47 "2016-08-12T14:58:37Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I remember the ep when the crew got devolved into various critters. Oh wait. That was a TNG ep, wasn’t it? I don’t remember this lizard episode. Huh, thought I’d seen them all. Maybe my brain blocked it out. > > I saw Spock’s Brain when I was a kid, and didn’t think it was worse than any other ep. You’re right, that’s a TNG episode. I don’t remember the name of it, but I think Riker devolved into some proto-human/homo erectus/neanderthalis/unspecified kind of creature. Spock’s Brain didn’t have to be as bad as it is, if not for the line, “Brain and brain! What is brain?!” One of my favorite TOS episodes has been consistently ranked near the bottom through the years: Spectre of the Gun. It was third season, and lacked budget, but hey, it was the OK Corral, which made it cool. And the Earps were beautifully deadpan in their delivery. “That jokes all over town,” or something. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/48 "2016-08-12T15:04:21Z")
So the lizard ep is TNG, leaving the “Janeway and Chakotay almost kiss after six months of being Adam and Eve” as the Voyager worst? ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/49 "2016-08-12T15:16:49Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So the lizard ep is TNG, leaving the “Janeway and Chakotay almost kiss after six months of being Adam and Eve” as the Voyager worst? No, the “lizard episode” (actual title: “Threshold”) is a _Voyager_ episode. Paris and Janeway “evolve” into lizards, caused by breaking the Warp 10 barrier. At the end, they get better, but not before they apparently mate and leave behind some younguns. The TNG de-volving episode is called “Genesis.” It is also bad. No list of bad episodes could be complete without the Original Series’ “The Way to Eden” (otherwise known as the Space Hippies episode). Almost unwatchable. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/50 "2016-08-12T16:22:00Z")
I might be the only person in this star system who likes _Masks_ and _The Royale_, commonly ranked among the worst TNG episodes. But _Genesis_, _Threshold_ and _Spock’s Brain_ really have no redeeming qualities at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/51 "2016-08-12T16:31:08Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > No list of bad episodes could be complete without the Original Series’ “The Way to Eden” (otherwise known as the Space Hippies episode). Almost unwatchable. Don’t be such a Herbert, even if you don’t reach. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/52 "2016-08-12T16:31:48Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > No, the “lizard episode” (actual title: “Threshold”) is a _Voyager_ episode. Paris and Janeway “evolve” into lizards, caused by breaking the Warp 10 barrier. At the end, they get better, but not before they apparently mate and leave behind some younguns. Youtube to the rescue: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz8wXCNyqbM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz8wXCNyqbM) Still don’t remember it. I’ll have to rewatch it someday. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/53 "2016-08-12T17:07:18Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I actually like _Spocks Brain_. Its in the so bad its good category and the actors nailed it. As a kid watching in the 70s I saw nothing particularly wrong with _Spock’s Brain_. In fact, back then the only episode I would always turn off was the ‘space hippies’ one (_The Way to Eden_). Even as a child, actually especially as a child, that was _not_ science fiction (singing?!?) Closest TOS came to being a _Lost in Space_ episode. But seeing it later ya gotta love the raging, unfettered misogyny of _Spock’s Brain_. Saying that a female dominated society would stagnate into cavemen herded for mating (_“…pain, and delight”_) and dumb, Barbie-esque bimbo women totally dependent on technology\*!\* Casting-couch Roddenberry at his best (i.e. worst)_!_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/54 "2016-08-12T17:15:12Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I actually like _Spocks Brain_. Its in the so bad its good category and the actors nailed it. It was actually written by Gene L. Coon under the pen name Lee Cronin and was supposedly a big “FU” to Fred Freiberger, who took over as executive producer from Gene Roddenberry in the third season. Coon felt that Freiberger wouldn’t recognize bad sci-fi if it bit him in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/55 "2016-08-12T17:45:55Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > As a kid watching in the 70s I saw nothing particularly wrong with _Spock’s Brain_. In fact, back then the only episode I would always turn off was the ‘space hippies’ one (_The Way to Eden_). Even as a child, actually especially as a child, that was _not_ science fiction (singing?!?) Closest TOS came to being a _Lost in Space_ episode. > > But seeing it later ya gotta love the raging, unfettered misogyny of _Spock’s Brain_. Saying that a female dominated society would stagnate into cavemen herded for mating (_“…pain, and delight”_) and dumb, Barbie-esque bimbo women totally dependent on technology\*!\* Casting-couch Roddenberry at his best (i.e. worst)_!_ 😃 :dubious: Misogyny? I have actually always thought it was a play longstanding fears that dependence on machines and computers would lead to mental stagnation amongst the population. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/56 "2016-08-12T19:44:06Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Just one other thing is bothering me about that. It’s probably nothing, but where do you suppose he could find parts for an old Peugeot in the Delta Quadrant? Yeah, but then they’d have that ugly basset hound on the ship. Archer’s space beagle was bad enough. I’d love to see Lt Columbo as communications officer. “Just one more thing…” He’d never hang up. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/57 "2016-08-12T19:51:39Z")
I liked adding 7 to the cast, though I thought it was simple pandering at first. I’d have rather had them add Amelia Earhart as a full time crew member. I liked her spunk. Another strong woman character, but more human than 7. She could have added a unique perspective, with her 300+ year outdated thinking. Given that, the episodes written that featured Janeway and 7 working together were some of the better ones. The writers seemed to be able to write scenes for two women together that didn’t involve comparing breast sizes (I’m looking at you, TNG!). I liked those episodes better than any that featured any of the others, save for the Doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/58 "2016-08-12T20:45:14Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I’d love to see Lt Columbo as communications officer. “Just one more thing…” He’d never hang up. Communications officer? Bob Newhart; just give that man a telephone and you’re golden. Watch _Hell Is for Heroes_ if you don’t believe me. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/59 "2016-08-12T20:47:21Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > IMO, that’s even worse than Spock’s Brain. > > What’s the consensus on the Warp 10=lizard “evolution” being the worst ST episode of all the series? I know that the cast seemed to agree. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/EdfLdS5OnYI/hqdefault.jpg "Star Trek Voyager Reunion 2015") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdfLdS5OnYI) ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081/60 "2016-08-12T20:52:02Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > As a kid watching in the 70s I saw nothing particularly wrong with _Spock’s Brain_. In fact, back then the only episode I would always turn off was the ‘space hippies’ one (_The Way to Eden_). Even as a child, actually especially as a child, that was _not_ science fiction (singing?!?) Closest TOS came to being a _Lost in Space_ episode. > > But seeing it later ya gotta love the raging, unfettered misogyny of _Spock’s Brain_. Saying that a female dominated society would stagnate into cavemen herded for mating (_“…pain, and delight”_) and dumb, Barbie-esque bimbo women totally dependent on technology\*!\* Casting-couch Roddenberry at his best (i.e. worst)_!_ 😃 I really think that Gene for all the talk of inclusiveness and such had some wired mad menesque ideas about women. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jeri-ryan-and-kate-mulgrew/762081.md?page=4)