# Jesse Ventura was right to sue the estate of Chris Kyle **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346 "2014-10-14T22:29:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/21 "2014-10-15T17:09:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It isn’t FoxNews - try the Washington Post and CNN, those bastions of right-wing disinformation. :rolleyes: The OP posted as though this was an ongoing issue with a lot of rhetoric. The Washington Post had fewer than a half dozen stories on the topic, several before the verdict was reached. Fox had a similar number of stories, but most of them after the verdict, often using blaring headlines condemning Ventura. It seems that my shot at Fox was accurate as the WP stories did not go out of their way to sensationalize the issue. I mocked Fox for their typically tabloid approach to “reporting,” not based on any particular partisan leaning. (Of course, with you, it is always partisan bickering. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/22 "2014-10-15T17:19:30Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Add to that Ventura is a liar, a kook and a friend of Alex Jones which means I wouldn’t believe him if he said water was wet. In addition to being a Truther, he also believes in a conspiracy to assassinate JFK. He’s made a lot of money off a couple of his lawsuits (not the one against the TSA), so no wonder he does it. True story: When Jesse ran for governor, my wife was teaching remedial college math, and they got to talking about the election. Every single one of those who announced that they supported Jesse was earning a D or F in the course at the time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/23 "2014-10-15T17:24:09Z")
This seems to be the result of (as usual) inaccurate media reporting on a legal matter. Ventura wasn’t suing Kyle’s widow. He was suing Kyle, and subsequently his estate. It’s hardly Ventura’s fault that a military widow happened to be the primary beneficiary of the estate. Moreover, how is the widow somehow more deserving of a pot of money than Kyle himself, a decorated war veteran? If it was okay to sue Kyle - and clearly it was - then it was okay to sue his estate. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/24 "2014-10-15T18:42:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In addition to being a Truther, he also believes in a conspiracy to assassinate JFK. > > He’s made a lot of money off a couple of his lawsuits (not the one against the TSA), so no wonder he does it. > > True story: When Jesse ran for governor, my wife was teaching remedial college math, and they got to talking about the election. Every single one of those who announced that they supported Jesse was earning a D or F in the course at the time. > > Regards, > Shodan He is an entertainer, and it’s reasonable to conclude his ability to earn money as an entertainer has been diminished by the false accusation. In addition there were no marks against him as a Navy Seal and this particular smear has harmed his reputation among his fellow Seals and other military personnel. You may not like him or his form of entertainment but he committed no crimes and didn’t deserve to be the subject of this lie. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/25 "2014-10-15T18:46:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > He is an entertainer, and it’s reasonable to conclude his ability to earn money as an entertainer has been diminished by the false accusation. According to the two polls to which I linked, his reputation was not injured by the allegation. And he seems to be able to get roles on loony conspiracy shows without much problem. > [@](#): > > In addition there were no marks against him as a Navy Seal and this particular smear has harmed his reputation among his fellow Seals and other military personnel. AFAICT suing a military widow did a lot more to harm his rep with SEALs and other military than Kyle did. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/26 "2014-10-15T18:49:19Z")
IIRC, Ventura was never actually a “Navy SEAL” himself. He was a member of some other special ops group that was later folded into or replaced by the SEALs after he retired. And again, it’s inaccurate at best to say he “sued a military widow”. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/27 "2014-10-15T19:12:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > AFAICT suing a military widow did a lot more to harm his rep with SEALs and other military than Kyle did. Probably, but at least it’s something Ventura actually did not some BS story a guy made up to sell books. RNATB, your first point was addressed in the Op. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/28 "2014-10-15T19:18:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > According to the two polls to which I linked, his reputation was not injured by the allegation. And he seems to be able to get roles on loony conspiracy shows without much problem. I don’t know how the damage to his reputation was demonstrated in court, but I doubt they used those polls. > [@](#): > > AFAICT suing a military widow did a lot more to harm his rep with SEALs and other military than Kyle did. > > Regards, > Shodan That’s irrelevant though, it was a question of the damage to his reputation in a legal sense as a result of the lie, and unaffected by the outcome of the lawsuit. Kyle falsely claimed that Ventura had advocated the deaths of Navy Seals, a very serious matter for a former Navy Seal (or whatever he was exactly) and Kyle did it for monetary gain. Jesse was entitled to ask for the ill gotten gains as compensation, and he received it. Kyle’s death made it impossible to ever fully clear Ventura’s name through a retraction. I’m not saying this was the best course of action for Ventura to take. He could have taken his case to the media instead of the courts. He could also have asked the estate to contribute money to a fund for injured veterans instead of defending a lawsuit. He can still do the same thing. If he told the story as a mistake by Kyle and directed any money associated with that mistake to charitable causes he could have done more to regain his reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/29 "2014-10-15T19:47:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t know how the damage to his reputation was demonstrated in court, but I doubt they used those polls. I thought it was based at least in part on how much profit the book made - see posts 9-11. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying this was the best course of action for Ventura to take. He could have taken his case to the media instead of the courts. He could also have asked the estate to contribute money to a fund for injured veterans instead of defending a lawsuit. He can still do the same thing. If he told the story as a mistake by Kyle and directed any money associated with that mistake to charitable causes he could have done more to regain his reputation. He could do a lot of things more classy than what he did or is doing, but we are talking about a professional wrestler and kookball here. I live in Minnesota. I did not vote for him, in case that isn’t obvious. I wish to heaven that the Independent, Reform parties didn’t attract these kinds of nutbags. The party founder drops out of the 92 race because he thinks the Republicans are bugging his daughter’s wedding and now Jesse is selling conspiracy theories. I blame the Illuminati. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/30 "2014-10-15T20:44:41Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Kyle falsely claimed that Ventura had advocated the deaths of Navy Seals, a very serious matter for a former Navy Seal (or whatever he was exactly) and Kyle did it for monetary gain. Are you sure they’re false? Ventura allegedly saying that the SEALs “deserved to lose a few guys” suddenly doesn’t sound very far fetched when you consider some of the things he **has** said: [‘I’ve had enough of the Fascist States of America’: Former Governor’s fury at TSA as he says he’s leaving for Mexico… but may still run for President](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057955/Jesse-Ventura-says-hes-fed-airport-security-hes-getting-Mexican-citizenship.html) > [@](#): > > Moments later, he vowed to apply for Mexican citizenship so he can live there more months of the year. > > The former Navy SEAL said he had lost his patriotism. > > ‘I will never stand for a national anthem again. I will turn my back and I will raise a fist,’ he said. And anyone who thinks there’s a conspiracy to keep his conspiracy show off the air has got more than [a few screws loose](http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/12/jesse-ventura-suspects-a-conspiracy-about-his-show-about-conspiracies/266361/): > [@](#): > > “It’s clear they’re doing everything they can to make it a failure so they don’t have to renew it,” Ventura said when he appeared on The Alex Jones Show’s Infowars Nightly News on November 28. The “they” he refers to, as is typical with conspiracy theories, is vaguely defined. “Look at what the facts are,” he said on a follow-up appearance last week. “The FEMA show was taken off, after airing only one time… and the TSA show, again… we completed the show and they chose not to air it. Somebody on their end made the decision. They’ve chosen not to air it. TruTV, the network did. Who influenced truTV to do that, I do not know.” ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/31 "2014-10-15T21:37:35Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Was it really that clear cut or is that just your opinion? At the time Kyle’s side had plenty of witnesses at the trial that was various parts of the confrontation. Ventura had others. Sure the judgement was for Ventura but the burden of proof is much lower in a civil trial. Add to that Ventura is a liar, a kook and a friend of Alex Jones which means I wouldn’t believe him if he said water was wet. The vocal SEAL community all seemed to come down on Kyle’s side too. Everything I’ve read about the incident say that the only evidence submitted by anyone who actually said “Chris Kyle hit Jesse Ventura for saying SEALs deserve to die” was Chris Kyle, in a videotaped deposition taken before his death. So whatever all the other witnesses who testified said, everything I’ve read about it says no one openly testified that the Ventura story happened other than Kyle. If it happened I question how it could have happened in a crowded bar and no one but Chris Kyle saw it. If it happened I question how Jesse Ventura has no documented injuries from it, especially considering there were snapshots of him all throughout the day as he was posing for pictures with people. If it happened I question why, all the SEALs who seem to support Chris Kyle and dislike Ventura, none of them were able to testify they saw it happen–even if just to lie for his widow’s sake. The fact that that didn’t happen make me feel pretty firmly it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/32 "2014-10-15T21:41:30Z")
Most of my personal familiarity with Jesse Ventura comes from his time as a professional wrestling commentator and manager (and his roles in Predator and Running Man.) I don’t have a lot of intrinsic respect for Ventura, but if he didn’t say that he wanted American soldiers killed or that they deserved to be killed then I think it’s pretty inappropriate to lie about him saying that in a book. I don’t think a former pro wrestler hosting dumb TV shows means it’s acceptable to say he openly desired dead American soldiers. My WAG is Chris Kyle disliked Jesse’s open leftist screeds all the time and after he fabricated his story to make his book more entertaining he probably decided speaking to the media and slurring Jesse was a good publicity move. I think Kyle was a legit war hero but also not a great man, anyone that shamelessly profits off of their service that way isn’t someone I can respect as an individual even if I can respect his having been there and his performance on the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/33 "2014-10-15T21:42:29Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Are you sure they’re false? Ventura allegedly saying that the SEALs “deserved to lose a few guys” suddenly doesn’t sound very far fetched when you consider some of the things he **has** said: None of the things you cite here would suggest to me he believe the SEALs “deserved to lose a few guys”. There’s a _mighty_ big jump you’re making there. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/34 "2014-10-15T21:44:27Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Are you sure they’re false? Ventura allegedly saying that the SEALs “deserved to lose a few guys” suddenly doesn’t sound very far fetched when you consider some of the things he **has** said: [‘I’ve had enough of the Fascist States of America’: Former Governor’s fury at TSA as he says he’s leaving for Mexico… but may still run for President](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057955/Jesse-Ventura-says-hes-fed-airport-security-hes-getting-Mexican-citizenship.html)And anyone who thinks there’s a conspiracy to keep his conspiracy show off the air has got more than [a few screws loose](http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/12/jesse-ventura-suspects-a-conspiracy-about-his-show-about-conspiracies/266361/): Jesse has witnesses that say that he didn’t say those things, nor was there an altercation with Kyle. As I recall, those defending Kyle weren’t very credible. I’m sure the defense presented their testimony in court. For you and Shodan, this is what wikipedia says: > [@](#): > > On August 7, 2014, U.S. District Judge Richard H. Kyle, no relation to Chris Kyle, upheld the jury’s award of $500,000 in defamation damages and $1,345,477.25 in “unjust enrichment” as, “reasonable and supported by a preponderance of the evidence.” So the $1.345 million dollars was unjust enrichment, only $500,000 was defamation damages. Peoples opinions of his reputation aren’t really important here, he didn’t have a reputation based on facts for making the statement Kyle claims or being involved in any such confrontation. Kyle made those things up according to the court and the jury by preponderance of the evidence. Since Kyle’s statements were in fact part of the promotion of his book it’s reasonable to assume he was unjustly enriched. None of the things you cite about him indicate the sentiments Kyle claimed, and again, the preponderance of evidence indicates no such confrontation ever occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/35 "2014-10-15T22:23:40Z")
It’s worth noting that although Kyle claimed the profits were going to the families of veterans [only a tiny fraction of it ever did](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado/page/0/2). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/36 "2014-10-15T22:48:27Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Sure the judgement was for Ventura but the burden of proof is much lower in a civil trial. In a civil defamation trial where the plaintiff is a public figure, there must be a showing of “actual malice” (a term of art which has almost nothing to do with ill will). This is an _extremely_ high bar. Off the top of my head, the only other public figure who has _successfully_ sued for defamation in the US is Steve Wynn, who was accused of threatening to kill Joe Francis (the Girls Gone Wild guy). The only reason Wynn won was that Francis went on Good Morning America and repeated his claim _during the trial_. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/37 "2014-10-15T23:07:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s worth noting that although Kyle claimed the profits were going to the families of veterans [only a tiny fraction of it ever did](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado/page/0/2). I dunno. He was veteran, and his then-wife was part of his family… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/38 "2014-10-15T23:09:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In a civil defamation trial where the plaintiff is a public figure, there must be a showing of “actual malice” (a term of art which has almost nothing to do with ill will). This is an _extremely_ high bar. > > Off the top of my head, the only other public figure who has _successfully_ sued for defamation in the US is Steve Wynn, who was accused of threatening to kill Joe Francis (the Girls Gone Wild guy). The only reason Wynn won was that Francis went on Good Morning America and repeated his claim _during the trial_. i think Carol Burnett successfully sued the National Enquirer for libel. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/39 "2014-10-16T00:12:15Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > i think Carol Burnett successfully sued the National Enquirer for libel. She says she did. The Enquirer didn’t directly deny it but said they never paid her any money. However,[wikipedia has an article on that very subject](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Burnett_v._National_Enquirer,_Inc.). It looks like in the end the money awarded to Burnett was seriously reduced. Perhaps they never did pay that amount either, or I heard them deny the payment before the appeals were completed. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346/40 "2014-10-16T00:22:32Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Most of my personal familiarity with Jesse Ventura comes from his time as a professional wrestling commentator and manager (and his roles in Predator and Running Man.) I don’t have a lot of intrinsic respect for Ventura, but if he didn’t say that he wanted American soldiers killed or that they deserved to be killed then I think it’s pretty inappropriate to lie about him saying that in a book. I don’t think a former pro wrestler hosting dumb TV shows means it’s acceptable to say he openly desired dead American soldiers. > > My WAG is Chris Kyle disliked Jesse’s open leftist screeds all the time and after he fabricated his story to make his book more entertaining he probably decided speaking to the media and slurring Jesse was a good publicity move. > > I think Kyle was a legit war hero but also not a great man, anyone that shamelessly profits off of their service that way isn’t someone I can respect as an individual even if I can respect his having been there and his performance on the battlefield. I despise Jesse Ventura for a number of reasons so this isn’t meant as a defense of him. I’d challenge the idea that he engages in “leftist screeds”. He’s more like Alex Jones than Michael Moore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesse-ventura-was-right-to-sue-the-estate-of-chris-kyle/701346.md?page=3)