# Jesus and the needy question **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 9, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048 "2015-10-09T17:39:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/61 "2015-10-09T20:42:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That doesn’t follow. > Regards, > Shodan This is also very evasive and telling of the true Christian nature, I guess. Fail at your Christian duty to help the needy and get snarky and evasive instead of admitting the mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/62 "2015-10-09T20:43:32Z")
It’s not a meaningless distinction, and I am not being evasive. You claimed that the fact that there are poor people means that Christians aren’t following Jesus. Jesus Himself said that even perfect obedience to His word would not eliminate poverty. So your claim is wrong. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/63 "2015-10-09T20:44:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” I guess no Christian wants to try and be perfect, since, you know, all you need t do to be a Christian is to say you are a Christian and “love god” in your heart. The actual taking action part… not so important ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/64 "2015-10-09T20:45:50Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Well, given that the vast majority of this country is Christian, and, we still have poor, homeless and needy people, I’d have to say you all are not doing your job or following gods spiritual commandments. You’re not wrong, except that I’d question that “the vast majority of this country” is Christian in more than a nominal way; and some of the poor, homeless, and needy people have problems that go deeper than needing a place to stay and a bite to eat. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/65 "2015-10-09T20:48:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s not a meaningless disctinction. You claimed that the fact that there are poor people means that Christians aren’t following Jesus. Jesus Himself said that even perfect obedience to His word would not eliminate poverty. So your claim is wrong. > > Regards, > Shodan You are about to give me a stress heart attack dude. Just because Jesus said there will allways be poor, that does not mean that — he — wants you to disregard his commands to help the poor. Your failure to follow to do so means that — you — want to disregard his commands. You. Do me a favor. Just admit that for Christians, religion is a means of personal comfort and that you all do not really care about the poor, nor do you care about following the commands of Jesus, not when they require you actually do something. The ones that require no effort… Christians seem to follow those orders perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/66 "2015-10-09T20:52:31Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You’re not wrong, except that I’d question that “the vast majority of this country” is Christian in more than a nominal way; and some of the poor, homeless, and needy people have problems that go deeper than needing a place to stay and a bite to eat. Yes. And that analysis would mean something if they tried to help but more help was still needed. Did you know this country spends more on dog food than it does on feeding the hungry? I help people who are poor and in need. I help quite a bit. But I could do more. A lot lot more. I do more than most Christians and I do not have God telling me to do so. They claim to speak/act for god and do nothing but help themself, the vast vast majority of them, the vast vast majority of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/67 "2015-10-09T20:53:35Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > You are about to give me a stress heart attack dude. > > Just because Jesus said there will allways be poor, that does not mean that — he — wants you to disregard his commands to help the poor. Your failure to follow to do so means that — you — want to disregard his commands. You. > > Do me a favor. Just admit that for Christians, religion is a means of personal comfort and that you all do not really care about the poor, nor do you care about following the commands of Jesus, not when they require you actually do something. The ones that require no effort… Christians seem to follow those orders perfectly. I think what Jesus meant was exactly what you describe: there will always be poor because those who profess to follow my teachings will, in word, but not in deed. Ahem, not My teachings, I mean Jesus’ ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/68 "2015-10-09T20:55:35Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Do me a favor. Just admit that for Christians, religion is a means of personal comfort and that you all do not really care about the poor, nor do you care about following the commands of Jesus, not when they require you actually do something. The ones that require no effort… Christians seem to follow those orders perfectly. Boy, talk about poisoning the well. Can more be done? Absolutely. Are there people who profess to be Christians, who do little or nothing to help those less advantaged than themselves? Absolutely. That said, to say that “you all do not really care about the poor” is an insult to those Christians who _do_ work for the benefit of the poor, homeless, jobless, etc. Many churches host homeless shelters, provide food pantries, job search assistance, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/69 "2015-10-09T20:58:24Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I think what Jesus meant was exactly what you describe: there will always be poor because those who profess to follow my teachings will, in word, but not in deed. I don’t expect Christians to be perfect. It is the attitude I don’t like. The snarkiness and evasion. If the response was: Yes, I know I could do more to help but I get so busy with my own life and my own problems that it is really hard for me to do more… Ok, so you told the truth, nobody is going to fault you. But saying… Oh, that was the OT or… Jesus said there would allways be poor… just shows that you never cared to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/70 "2015-10-09T21:02:12Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Boy, talk about poisoning the well. Can more be done? Absolutely. Are there people who profess to be Christians, who do little or nothing to help those less advantaged than themselves? Absolutely. > > That said, to say that “you all do not really care about the poor” is an insult to those Christians who _do_ work for the benefit of the poor, homeless, jobless, etc. Many churches host homeless shelters, provide food pantries, job search assistance, and more. Well then, I guess they are going to have to get over being insulted. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/71 "2015-10-09T21:04:14Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Well then, I guess they are going to have to get over being insulted. That’s your response, seriously? When I note that there are Christians who _do_ do the things that you complained about them not doing, you say, “they are going have to get over being insulted”? That’s a nice big chip on that shoulder of yours. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/72 "2015-10-09T21:07:33Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > You are about to give me a stress heart attack dude. > > Just because Jesus said there will allways be poor, that does not mean that — he — wants you to disregard his commands to help the poor. Your failure to follow to do so means that — you — want to disregard his commands. You. Again, I don’t think you are getting it. You are using the presence of poor people as an indication that the Church isn’t following Jesus’ commands. That doesn’t follow logically - Jesus said that there would always be poor people whether the Church followed His commmands or not. It also does not mean that any one Christian is not following Jesus’ commands to assist the poor. > [@](#): > > Do me a favor. Just admit that for Christians, religion is a means of personal comfort and that you all do not really care about the poor, nor do you care about following the commands of Jesus, not when they require you actually do something. The ones that require no effort… Christians seem to follow those orders perfectly. No, I can’t do you that favor - I don’t lie, even as a favor. I am a Lutheran, as it happens. My church runs a food shelf, a subsidized day care, and supports programs for the homeless, victims of domestic abuse, and chemical dependency support. Lutheran World Relief has donated some hundreds of millions of dollars to relieving poverty and disasters. All Christian denominations have organizations similar to LWF, serving the poor of all faiths and no faith. Your notion that Christianity does not involve service to the poor would be offensive if it weren’t laughable. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/73 "2015-10-09T21:07:51Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > That’s your response, seriously? When I note that there are Christians who _do_ do the things that you complained about them not doing, you say, “they are going have to get over being insulted”? That’s a nice big chip on that shoulder of yours. Right You are more concerned with your hurt feelings than you are with holding your other christians brothers to task. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/74 "2015-10-09T21:10:18Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > That’s your response, seriously? When I note that there are Christians who _do_ do the things that you complained about them not doing, you say, “they are going have to get over being insulted”? That’s a nice big chip on that shoulder of yours. I think what he’s saying is there are many people who care for the poor, religion be damned. His insult is for the Catholic-lite who profess to follow Jesus’ teachings but come up a bit short. (I could be wrong.) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/75 "2015-10-09T21:11:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again, I don’t think you are getting it. You are using the presence of poor people as an indication that the Church isn’t following Jesus’ commands. That doesn’t follow logically - Jesus said that there would always be poor people whether the Church followed His commmands or not. > > It also does not mean that any one Christian is not following Jesus’ commands to assist the poor. > No, I can’t do you that favor - I don’t lie, even as a favor. > > I am a Lutheran, as it happens. My church runs a food shelf, a subsidized day care, and supports programs for the homeless, victims of domestic abuse, and chemical dependency support. Lutheran World Relief has donated some hundreds of millions of dollars to relieving poverty and disasters. All Christian denominations have organizations similar to LWF, serving the poor of all faiths and no faith. > > Your notion that Christianity does not involve service to the poor would be offensive if it weren’t laughable. > > Regards, > Shodan Then why are you making excuses? Your church is doing what it needs to do. So why the need to make excuses? And what about all of the Christians who do noting? I often misjudge you, Shodan, I admit that. But, you also defend cases you often do not fully believe or fully represent. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/76 "2015-10-09T21:16:50Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I think what he’s saying is there are many people who care for the poor, religion be damned. His insult is for the Catholic-lite who profess to follow Jesus’ teachings but come up a bit short. (I could be wrong.) More or less. It is a simple matter of statistics. There is way too many poor and way too much suffering in a country that is predominately Christian. Obviously, the majority of them are not doing their job. It seems to me, those that scream the loudest about being christians, the evangelicals, do the least to help the poor. It’s usually Lutherans and Episcopalians and Presbyterians and Mormons and Catholics who help the most. In other words, the ones who do the most to try to make this a “Christian Nation”, the evangelicals, are the same ones who do the least amount to help the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/77 "2015-10-09T21:19:40Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > That’s your response, seriously? When I note that there are Christians who _do_ do the things that you complained about them not doing, you say, “they are going have to get over being insulted”? That’s a nice big chip on that shoulder of yours. > [@Shodan](#): > > Again, I don’t think you are getting it. You are using the presence of poor people as an indication that the Church isn’t following Jesus’ commands. That doesn’t follow logically - Jesus said that there would always be poor people whether the Church followed His commmands or not. > > It also does not mean that any one Christian is not following Jesus’ commands to assist the poor. > No, I can’t do you that favor - I don’t lie, even as a favor. > > I am a Lutheran, as it happens. My church runs a food shelf, a subsidized day care, and supports programs for the homeless, victims of domestic abuse, and chemical dependency support. Lutheran World Relief has donated some hundreds of millions of dollars to relieving poverty and disasters. All Christian denominations have organizations similar to LWF, serving the poor of all faiths and no faith. > > Your notion that Christianity does not involve service to the poor would be offensive if it weren’t laughable. > > Regards, > Shodan Guys, I apologize. I get too worked up in these “debates”. I should not do that. I should act better and I know it and I apologize. My criticism of “lukewarm” Christians and evangelicals still stands but I apologize for condemning the whole group of people who go to church or call themself a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/78 "2015-10-09T21:46:37Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The Gospel says that you are supposed to provide help to that person. There is no specific “you must help that person _in this way_” direction given. > > So, in this case, help might be: > > - Provide shelter in your own home > - Provide direction to a homeless shelter > - Provide means for them to gain shelter > …among a number of other legitimate, faithful actions. Here’s another issue: I understand that Jesus’ teachings say you do not necessarily have to shelter someone in your own house. A Christian can provide means for them to be pointed somewhere else, and you’ve done the Christian thing. What happens when there is not enough room in those shelters? Are you obliged to take the less unfortunate in, then, or do you point them to a bush? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/79 "2015-10-09T22:22:32Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Guys, I apologize. I get too worked up in these “debates”. I should not do that. I should act better and I know it and I apologize. My criticism of “lukewarm” Christians and evangelicals still stands but I apologize for condemning the whole group of people who go to church or call themself a Christian. Thank you for the apology. FWIW, my last response to you was rewritten twice before I posted it (to attempt to moderate what I was saying), and it was still more combative than I should have been, in retrospect. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048/80 "2015-10-09T22:24:43Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > Here’s another issue: I understand that Jesus’ teachings say you do not necessarily have to shelter someone in your own house. A Christian can provide means for them to be pointed somewhere else, and you’ve done the Christian thing. What happens when there is not enough room in those shelters? Are you obliged to take the less unfortunate in, then, or do you point them to a bush? Why not read that short book which contains every Word of Jesus’s Teachings? If you dont like that format, there are others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-and-the-needy-question/734048.md?page=5)