# Jesus Christ and the Crucifixion **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 1, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876 "2004-03-01T06:46:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chefIL11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chefIL11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chefIL11)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/1 "2004-03-01T06:46:32Z")
After seeing the passion tonight, I remembered a time I listened to the radio and heard a story that caught my attention… As it goes, after the crucifixion, Jesus was stabbed in the side with a dagger (I have also heard sword, but for the sake of the story, I will use dagger) The dagger that stabbed him in the side has been passed down through generations making families turn against each other as a curse. I have also heard that the dagger belonged to the Hitler family at one time. Is any of this true? if not, where would this myth get its origin? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/2 "2004-03-01T12:04:10Z")
It sounds like a corrupted version of the story of [the Holy Lance](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08773a.htm). You can also check out various legends of [St. Longinus, Centurion ad Martyr](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/9587/rel_lon.html) such as the one to which I have linked. (You should not confuse the legendary Longinus with the real philosopher, Longinus, who lived at the end of the third century. I strongly suspect that the relic spear head is one of innumerable pious fakes that the Christian church has accumulated over the years, but the story can be found in the two links provided or by searching for “longinus” for more information.) ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/3 "2004-03-01T12:16:40Z")
I tried to post this earlier but was denied by the “overnight” maintanance - lo and behold, when I return, **tom** has beaten me to it. 🙂 Oh well, since I typed it up and so diligently saved it… In the [gospel of John](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=JOHN+19:33-35&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on), the story is told that Jesus was stabbed in the side with a spear to make sure that he was dead: > [@](#): > > [sup]33[/sup]But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. [sup]33[/sup]Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. [sup]33[/sup]The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. There are lots of legends relating to what happened to the spear after the crucifixion - here is [one site](http://petragrail.tripod.com/spear.html), and [another](http://sxws.com/charis/relics8.htm) - but relics were very popular in the Middle Ages, and it is said that there were enough splinters of the “True Cross” in circulation to make up several crosses. Grim ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/4 "2004-03-01T16:26:50Z")
Bit of a hijack, but this legend is the basis for a great pulp-fiction series called _Casca: The Eternal Mercenary_ by Barry Sadler of “Ballad of the Green Berets” fame. It’s sort of like _Highlander_. [http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Casca.htm](http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Casca.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/5 "2004-03-01T16:54:13Z")
**tomndebb** ’s right–it’s the lance of Longinus, not a knife or sword. I hadn’t heard about the Hitler connection, but judging from tomndebb’s link and a few related sites, it seems that Ravenscroft’s book [The Spear of Destiny](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0877285470/102-2329950-9664164?v=glance) is primarily responsible for propogating that particular myth. Sounds a bit silly to me–part of a whole genre of pseudo-scholarship that attributes the Nazis’ evilness to their purported occult links. Incidentally, the spear point from the lance is still held as a holy relic at St. Peter’s basilica in Rome (its location is marked by a glorious Bernini statue). I think the part that Ravenscroft and all are talking about is the lance handle itself. ---
**Author:** ![beajerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@beajerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beajerry)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/6 "2004-03-01T18:23:04Z")
The stab in the right abdomen is probably a common symbol used many times before, most notably in Prometheus’ story (vultures eating his liver for eternity). The liver regenerates itself, is rich with blood, is a filter, shows disease quickly (swells, pain, cirrhosis), etc. It was a very useful symbol. It’s use in Jesus’s crucifixion was probably as that with Prometheus’s fate: symbolizing eternal life and renewal. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/7 "2004-03-01T19:04:24Z")
The “Spear of Destiny” was part of the Habsburg Crown Jewels in Austria until it was taken by the Nazis. That much is true. There is a rumor that it is the spear used by Longinus. That cannot be verified and is highly unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/8 "2004-03-01T21:04:58Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Bit of a hijack, but this legend is the basis for a great pulp-fiction series called _Casca: The Eternal Mercenary_ by Barry Sadler of “Ballad of the Green Berets” fame. It’s sort of like _Highlander_. > > [The Casca Chronology](http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Casca.htm) I read that series. Some of them were enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/9 "2004-03-01T21:09:01Z")
> [@beajerry](#): > > The stab in the right abdomen is probably a common symbol used many times before, most notably in Prometheus’ story (vultures eating his liver for eternity). > The liver regenerates itself, is rich with blood, is a filter, shows disease quickly (swells, pain, cirrhosis), etc. It was a very useful symbol. > > It’s use in Jesus’s crucifixion was probably as that with Prometheus’s fate: symbolizing eternal life and renewal. Its been many years since bible study, but I was taught that this fulfilled a prophesy that the mesiah would have no broken bones or some such. That is why the point is made in John that the Romans didn’t break his legs, but instead peirced his side. ---
**Author:** ![hammerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-crucifixion/231876/10 "2004-03-02T06:28:33Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > I read that series. Some of them were enjoyable. Me too, when I was a teenager. I’m afraid to read them again now, for fear they won’t be good. But at least they interested me in history.