# Jesus Christ and The Second Coming...Are we waiting for Him to be physically reborn or **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576 "2012-12-30T16:49:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/81 "2013-01-05T06:52:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This thread is about Fuzzy Religion. Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair Fuzzy Wuzzy shall reign for ever and ever! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/82 "2013-01-05T12:26:37Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Ahem … > > (Emphasis added.) > > Or as the hymn puts it: [Lo, He Comes With Clouds Descending.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08cGl44SWGM) And wasn,t Muhammad also taken up to heaven…what is the difference? One writing can be as true (or false as the other). ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/83 "2013-01-05T12:37:10Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It seems like you are exploring different religions, that is good and important. In life it helps to simply explore for a while with an open mind. Just remember, it is a spiritual quest, when you find the right religion (or world view) with the right people it will be worth the wait. There is proof that all writings and teachings are from humans, so It is just a matter of who or what human you believe. Humans are not always truthful and like to tell stories, there is too much contradiction in the Bible writings for me to take them seriously. People are waitng for a man who said that he would return while some of those standing there listening to him were still alive, where is the people who were standing there? Are they with the people who were said to have arose from the dead when Jesus is said have risen? Did they also ascend into heaven, or did they have to die again? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/84 "2013-01-05T12:49:31Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I had no idea that you were in your 80’s, but you are so young at heart. Your asking good questions. Never, ever, give up on the spiritual quest…when you do that you are ready to meet your Maker. > > Also, I’ve never looked at religious texts like a high school textbook. I do not believe any of them has all of the answers. A religious text is worth looking at if it is a helpful guide. > > I also look at the Bible like any other book. At different times in history, different types of writing forms were used and accepted. For instance, parables, metaphors, similes, historic, and poetic. Various formats were used. Historic, novels, memoirs etc. I’m sure you get the point. The Bible was written a long time ago using a format that we are really not that familiar with. > > I do not take the passage about Jesus actually coming back literally. But then He is God and He did arise from the dead, so anything is possible. After much study, and many years, I no longer search to believe, I search for truth, and the more i search and listen to others as far as a God is concerned I do not believe anyone has the answers but they do raise a lot of questions. In my search for truth (using a human mind,that is all I have) I can see that no one has an answer, People believe what they wish and what helps them. I do not have anything against belief (unless belief is push as law of the land, or is used as an excuse to kill other people as it has been though the ages). There is much example of this in the OT. People using God as an excuse to kill even the innocent people for land, and even today some people use it as an excuse, if that were not so there would be peace in the Middle East. Most religions are divided and Christianity is the most divided of all. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/85 "2013-01-05T16:08:25Z")
All I can say is I agree. In my old age. I’ve reached my fifties and realize that we are all human and we all have our limitations. We’re both lucky in the sense that it is not likely that we will not likely to be drafted or asked to join a religious crusade to Jerusalem. So besides our own personal lives we will not have to make life and death decisions. All we need is a religious, moral and ethical structure that will allow us to live our lives fully. So to me it makes no difference that the New Testament isn’t perfect. It’s enough that the Bible allows me to enjoy life more. However, I do believe it is sad when a person gives up on the religious quest. When we do that we give up a lot that makes life worth living. I’ll never give it up. To give up the religious quest would mean that I have given up my connection to mankind’s past and my hopes for a better future. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/86 "2013-01-05T16:59:57Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > The good thing about being on a spiritual quest is that I don’t have to be nice to everybody. Joan the Arc certainly wasn’t. Joan of Arc was on a military/political mission. The point of it was not to make it more likely that she or anybody else would get into Heaven than if she had stayed home, it was to drive the English out of France. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/87 "2013-01-06T12:49:11Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > All I can say is I agree. In my old age. I’ve reached my fifties and realize that we are all human and we all have our limitations. > > We’re both lucky in the sense that it is not likely that we will not likely to be drafted or asked to join a religious crusade to Jerusalem. So besides our own personal lives we will not have to make life and death decisions. > > All we need is a religious, moral and ethical structure that will allow us to live our lives fully. So to me it makes no difference that the New Testament isn’t perfect. It’s enough that the Bible allows me to enjoy life more. > > However, I do believe it is sad when a person gives up on the religious quest. When we do that we give up a lot that makes life worth living. I’ll never give it up. To give up the religious quest would mean that I have given up my connection to mankind’s past and my hopes for a better future. We don’t know for certain the date that religion came into human culture, but I know several people who have and are very religious, and a couple have had several mental breakdowns in their lives. If one is still searching for a religion then it means they are not convinced. I find life worth living because I believe I was born to live, the best I can, and help others along the way. I find being kind to others enrichs my life. I do not care if others disagree with me, if their religion helps them to be a better person, then more power to them. To me religion is like a medicine, if one takes blood pressure medicine to help them control their high blood pressure that is good,but a preson taking the same medicine that doesn’t need it, can cause great harm, or even death…to each his own. I do know that all religions, what ever is taught, thought, or written, was the work of human beings. and there are many, many different ways to look at religions. It seems one picks what they hope is true.If it makes their life better it is up to them. One can look to our jails, and see how many there claim to believe in a religion, there are more there than Atheists. all through History men of religion have killed other humans and many in the name of God and some even today still do. of course it may be the minority but their religion apparently didn’t help. and in centuries past many killed because of their religion! ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/88 "2013-01-06T14:27:25Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > We don’t know for certain the date that religion came into human culture, but I know several people who have and are very religious, and a couple have had several mental breakdowns in their lives. If one is still searching for a religion then it means they are not convinced. I find life worth living because I believe I was born to live, the best I can, and help others along the way. I find being kind to others enrichs my life. > > I do not care if others disagree with me, if their religion helps them to be a better person, then more power to them. To me religion is like a medicine, if one takes blood pressure medicine to help them control their high blood pressure that is good,but a preson taking the same medicine that doesn’t need it, can cause great harm, or even death…to each his own. I do know that all religions, what ever is taught, thought, or written, was the work of human beings. and there are many, many different ways to look at religions. It seems one picks what they hope is true.If it makes their life better it is up to them. > > One can look to our jails, and see how many there claim to believe in a religion, there are more there than Atheists. all through History men of religion have killed other humans and many in the name of God and some even today still do. of course it may be the minority but their religion apparently didn’t help. and in centuries past many killed because of their religion! The present stare-down between Israel and Iran is over religion. Although there are many that would kill over religion, I would say there are many more that are peace loving individuals. I have even met some people that say that they are willing to die for their religion, but they are unwilling to kill others. So without doubt religion can prompt individuals to take a moral stand. Now I’m wondering if an atheist would be willing to take this kind of stance for atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/89 "2013-01-06T16:27:42Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I have even met some people that say that they are willing to die for their religion, but they are unwilling to kill others. So without doubt religion can prompt individuals to take a moral stand. Now I’m wondering if an atheist would be willing to take this kind of stance for atheism. My primary responsibility is to my family, then my friends. Abandoning kin for the sake of martyrdom isn’t a keystone of athiesm. And I’d be quite surprised to find a Christian advocating such a heinous, selfish act. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/90 "2013-01-06T16:52:29Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > My primary responsibility is to my family, then my friends. Abandoning kin for the sake of martyrdom isn’t a keystone of athiesm. And I’d be quite surprised to find a Christian advocating such a heinous, selfish act. hmmmm - [QUOTE= Jesus Christ] 21“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. […] 34“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— 36a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’e 37“Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. [/QUOTE] (As recorded at Mathew 10 in his Holy Record) ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/91 "2013-01-06T16:56:07Z")
> [@simster](#): > > hmmmm - > > (As recorded at Mathew 10 in his Holy Record) So God appreciates a good suicide? Found your loophole, Catholics. Take your own life after proclaming your allegiance, and you’re in. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/92 "2013-01-06T16:58:50Z")
> [@simster](#): > > hmmmm - > > (As recorded at Mathew 10 in his Holy Record) Such a spiteful, hateful, jealous god. Glad I’m not on His team. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/93 "2013-01-06T17:04:00Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > So God appreciates a good suicide? Found your loophole, Catholics. Take your own life after proclaming your allegiance, and you’re in. I think ‘God’ appreciates a good bit of irony, when all his followers don’t quite seem to be able to read the book they proclaim to be so worthy of reverence. “Christian Family Values” is one of the worst oxymoronic things to spout when viewed with the above passage - and it makes even less sense that the “world” would “hate” christians as above if they (the christians) were following the other acts of kindness that Jesus supposedly preached to do (heal the sick, feed the poor, etc) - why on earth would folks HATE folks that do good deeds? Makes zero sense unless you see God as Loki going - “heh, they just don’t get it, do they?” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/94 "2013-01-06T17:05:26Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I have even met some people that say that they are willing to die for their religion, but they are unwilling to kill others. So without doubt religion can prompt individuals to take a moral stand. Now I’m wondering if an atheist would be willing to take this kind of stance for atheism. Atheism isn’t a cause-it’s a position. BTW, if you count the number of people that have said they would be willing to _kill_ to defend or further their religion versus the number of people that have said they would be willing to kill to defend or further atheism, how do you think it would stack up? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/95 "2013-01-06T17:18:01Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I have even met some people that say that they are willing to die for their religion, but they are unwilling to kill others. So without doubt religion can prompt individuals to take a moral stand. Now I’m wondering if an atheist would be willing to take this kind of stance for atheism. There’s always Voltaire, more or less, whose views are paraphrased as “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” That’s a pretty standard humanist position to take. (Edit: Voltaire himself was a deist–I speak of the sentiment more generally). As for being willing to die over my lack of belief in God–I dunno. Are you willing to die over your lack of belief in leprechauns? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/96 "2013-01-07T13:17:49Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > The present stare-down between Israel and Iran is over religion. Although there are many that would kill over religion, I would say there are many more that are peace loving individuals. > > I have even met some people that say that they are willing to die for their religion, but they are unwilling to kill others. So without doubt religion can prompt individuals to take a moral stand. Now I’m wondering if an atheist would be willing to take this kind of stance for atheism. I don’t think most Atheists ever had that occasion, all though some have been killed because of it. One can look back in history and see the thousands of people who were killed because they dared to admit they didn’t believe in a certain way. Most who have died over their beliefs died from the beliefs of another’s belief. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/97 "2013-01-08T02:24:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > As for being willing to die over my lack of belief in God–I dunno. Are you willing to die over your lack of belief in leprechauns? Now you are being flippant…at any rate, I don’t think the Christians I were speaking to were talking about being martyrs. Of course, I don’t claim I speak for these other Christians. But it didn’t seem like they wanted to be leaders of any “Christian movement.” It was more like, they felt that God was the one who would decide when they would die. So if they were near death, they wanted to be faithful to Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/98 "2013-01-08T02:35:34Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Now you are being flippant…at any rate, I don’t think the Christians I were speaking to were talking about being martyrs. Of course, I don’t claim I speak for these other Christians. But it didn’t seem like they wanted to be leaders of any “Christian movement.” It was more like, they felt that God was the one who would decide when they would die. **So if they were near death, they wanted to be faithful to Christianity.** \ well, of course - nothing left to lose at that point… way to stand up for your beliefs! sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/99 "2013-01-08T14:42:04Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I do not have anything against belief (unless belief is push as law of the land, or is used as an excuse to kill other people as it has been though the ages). There is much example of this in the OT. People using God as an excuse to kill even the innocent people for land, and even today some people use it as an excuse, if that were not so there would be peace in the Middle East. Most religions are divided and Christianity is the most divided of all. Without doubt, there are people that take religion and God to extremes, there have been many religious conflicts and wars. Once in a while I wonder whether it’s possible to have a spiritual quest without God. There is a book you might be interested in, Spiritual Humanism by Moller de la Rouviere. I’ve only glanced at this book and haven’t read it. I feel more comfortable with the traditions of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/100 "2013-01-09T13:04:33Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > All I can say is I agree. In my old age. I’ve reached my fifties and realize that we are all human and we all have our limitations. > > We’re both lucky in the sense that it is not likely that we will not likely to be drafted or asked to join a religious crusade to Jerusalem. So besides our own personal lives we will not have to make life and death decisions. > > All we need is a religious, moral and ethical structure that will allow us to live our lives fully. So to me it makes no difference that the New Testament isn’t perfect. It’s enough that the Bible allows me to enjoy life more. > > However, I do believe it is sad when a person gives up on the religious quest. When we do that we give up a lot that makes life worth living. I’ll never give it up. To give up the religious quest would mean that I have given up my connection to mankind’s past and my hopes for a better future. I have found the more I search for truth the further from the Biblical or religious idea I come. Truth can not be contradictory. It can be different in some circumstances, such as a person living in a different time Zone will be truthful if he/she states the time, or looks at a tree in differnt seasons, but it isn’t contradictory,and many religions contradict each other and even people in the same religion translate thigs differently than others. It is a matter of belief not fact. belief can be a help to some but not to others. To me life itself is worth living,one can enjoy the beauty around them and enjoy the happiness of others as well as their own joy. Many thigs happen just because they do…like storms,etc. Even our being born as to who we are, was because our ancestors had sex on a certain day and a sperm met an ova, no big mystery… animals came into being the same way, or a plant followed a seed. We like to think we are special, yet the world got along fine before humans evolved, but we do need plants and animals to survive! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576.md?page=6)