# Jesus Christ and The Second Coming...Are we waiting for Him to be physically reborn or **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576 "2012-12-30T16:49:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/101 "2013-01-09T15:18:42Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I have found the more I search for truth the further from the Biblical or religious idea I come. Truth can not be contradictory. It can be different in some circumstances, such as a person living in a different time Zone will be truthful if he/she states the time, or looks at a tree in differnt seasons, but it isn’t contradictory,and many religions contradict each other and even people in the same religion translate thigs differently than others. It is a matter of belief not fact. belief can be a help to some but not to others. Agreed. In order for the Bible to make sense it needs to be put in a historical context and realize that it was written by a man, probably many different men during different periods of time. Now I happen to believe these writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but it is not necessary that you do. But without doubt these men were on a religious quest. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/102 "2013-01-09T16:34:08Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > But without doubt these men were on a religious quest. Without doubt these people were on a _political_ quest and used religion as a tool. I still have no idea what you mean by “spiritual quest”. Not trying a gotcha or anything, I just have no idea what to envisage.. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/103 "2013-01-09T18:29:10Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Without doubt these people were on a _political_ quest and used religion as a tool. > > I still have no idea what you mean by “spiritual quest”. > Not trying a gotcha or anything, I just have no idea what to envisage.. William James calls it a “Will to Believe.” It is a willingness to believe that life has value beyond what you and I presently perceive with our senses. For me a spiritual quest is a desire to find out what that value is. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/104 "2013-01-09T18:42:26Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > William James calls it a “Will to Believe.” It is a willingness to believe that life has value beyond what you and I presently perceive with our senses. For me a spiritual quest is a desire to find out what that value is. OK, thanks for bothering to explain. So, if I get you right, the spiritual part comes in where you assume there is something else to life besides just a living body. Call that a spirit, a soul, a life force or whatever that lives on after the body dies. It is that thing what you are trying to find out more about? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/105 "2013-01-09T18:48:38Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > OK, thanks for bothering to explain. > > So, if I get you right, the spiritual part comes in where you assume there is something else to life besides just a living body. Call that a spirit, a soul, a life force or whatever that lives on after the body dies. > It is that thing what you are trying to find out more about? Yes, and I believe that the spiritual quest links you to the past and the future, and is perhaps the most important part of life. Without it, life becomes dreary and drab. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/106 "2013-01-09T18:53:39Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Yes, and I believe that the spiritual quest links you to the past and the future, and is perhaps the most important part of life. Without it, life becomes dreary and drab. I’m not concerned with any of that metaphysical woo, and my life has been anything but dreary and drab. Maybe you’re not doing it right? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/107 "2013-01-09T19:02:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m not concerned with any of that metaphysical woo, and my life has been anything but dreary and drab. Maybe you’re not doing it right? I don’t consider it metaphysical, I consider it fundamental to life. Many people do things without even being conscious of being on a quest. Perhaps, you or somebody else will give a panhandler a dollar or two. To me, that’s part of the quest. When you become conscious of it, it becomes a spiritual quest. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/108 "2013-01-09T19:03:54Z")
I’m not getting the dreary and drab either but I am interrested to hear how far you have come in your quest. Judging by how important this is to you, I assume you have studied the world’s religions extensively. So which of these, aside from the Abrahamic ones, do you feel have a ring of truth to them? Are there ones that are right out? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/109 "2013-01-09T19:17:30Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > I’m not getting the dreary and drab either but I am interrested to hear how far you have come in your quest. > > Judging by how important this is to you, I assume you have studied the world’s religions extensively. So which of these, aside from the Abrahamic ones, do you feel have a ring of truth to them? > Are there ones that are right out? These start with the right idea – don’t know much about them but they sound far from “dreary and drab.” [**5 Inspiring Religions That Worship Penises** \*](http://www.cracked.com/article_16103_5-inspiring-religions-that-worship-penises.html) \*Warning: Some of the pictures/drawings might not be SFW. YMMOV. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/110 "2013-01-09T19:20:09Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I don’t consider it metaphysical, I consider it fundamental to life. Many people do things without even being conscious of being on a quest. Perhaps, you or somebody else will give a panhandler a dollar or two. To me, that’s part of the quest. When you become conscious of it, it becomes a spiritual quest. I’m not playing that game in a different way. I’m not playing that game unconsciously. I’m not playing that game, _ **period** _. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/111 "2013-01-09T20:06:40Z")
It’s not a game, it’s fundamental to life. Anybody who makes an extra effort at work. Anybody who is extra generous once in a while. Or a person who is nice when they don’t have to be, they are all on a quest. For some reason they want a little extra from life, in a manner of speaking they are on a quest. Then when you start seeing that your own quest is similar to the quest of others, it becomes a spiritual quest. Personally, I consider myself a beginner on the quest, but I also don’t believe it’s important to measure how far you’ve progressed. As far as I’m concerned it’s never-ending. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/112 "2013-01-09T20:11:58Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It’s not a game, it’s fundamental to life. Anybody who makes an extra effort at work. Anybody who is extra generous once in a while. Or a person who is nice when they don’t have to be, they are all on a quest. For some reason they want a little extra from life, in a manner of speaking they are on a quest. Then when you start seeing that your own quest is similar to the quest of others, it becomes a spiritual quest. > > Personally, I consider myself a beginner on the quest, but I also don’t believe it’s important to measure how far you’ve progressed. As far as I’m concerned it’s never-ending. _This_ is exactly why it is next to impossible to communicate with some religionists. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/113 "2013-01-09T20:29:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _This_ is exactly why it is next to impossible to communicate with some religionists. I thought I did a decent job of explaining myself. What is it you didn’t understand? I didn’t say you needed to go on a spiritual quest, I said I was on a spiritual quest. ---
**Author:** ![Twilight-Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@Twilight-Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twilight-Twin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/114 "2013-01-09T22:46:35Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Go read Revelation. Jesus isn’t born a baby the second time around. The gates of heaven are flung open and He charges out on a white horse with a sword clenched in His teeth. Then He kicks everyone’s ass, and all the dead come back to life, and He builds a golden city, and everyone lives happily ever after. Right on! LMAO but pretty accurate.😉 ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/115 "2013-01-10T00:04:56Z")
That passage in Revelations was mentioned before in this thread. To me it’s an extended metaphor or allegory. I don’t take it literally. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/116 "2013-01-10T00:38:23Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > It’s not a game, it’s fundamental to life. Anybody who makes an extra effort at work. Anybody who is extra generous once in a while. Or a person who is nice when they don’t have to be, they are all on a quest. For some reason they want a little extra from life, in a manner of speaking they are on a quest. Then when you start seeing that your own quest is similar to the quest of others, it becomes a spiritual quest… I already saw that movie: [**Vision Quest**](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090270/). Madonna’s in it. Hawt. But no religion. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/117 "2013-01-10T12:47:42Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Agreed. In order for the Bible to make sense it needs to be put in a historical context and realize that it was written by a man, probably many different men during different periods of time. Now I happen to believe these writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but it is not necessary that you do. But without doubt these men were on a religious quest. Yes, I understand that is your belief and you have that right, but in fact it was humans who declared what was inspired, and what was not, during the time of Constantine, when the Bishops of the Roman and Orthodox decided what was of God and what was not, many other writings were destroyed, or called false, such as the Book of Thomas,etc. I think it was natural to choose the Bishop of Rome as the head of the church because Constantine was Roman Emperor, and the monks who copied the writings added their own words to validate the claim…Am I correct maybe not, but no matter it was humans who made the declaration; if God is a spirit, then why would there be another Holy Spirit, surely the father would be a Holy Spirit,would he not? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/118 "2013-01-10T15:36:44Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I think it was natural to choose the Bishop of Rome as the head of the church because Constantine was Roman Emperor, and the monks who copied the writings added their own words to validate the claim…Am I correct maybe not, but no matter it was humans who made the declaration; if God is a spirit, then why would there be another Holy Spirit, surely the father would be a Holy Spirit,would he not? That’s true, but I look at the Holy Spirit as a metaphor. The Holy Spirit is Mankind’s connection to God. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/119 "2013-01-10T15:45:05Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > That’s true, but I look at the Holy Spirit as a metaphor. The Holy Spirit is Mankind’s connection to God. Is your god also a metaphor? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576/120 "2013-01-10T15:57:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is your god also a metaphor? To a certain extent, God Himself is a metaphor. First, I assume that I don’t know everything. Pretty easy assumption to make, so it is impossible for me to know the exact nature of God. Secondly, I believe that He’s the God of All Creation and not just Mankind. A corollary to the second, is that He is the Supreme Judge and decides what is fair to the Universe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-and-the-second-coming-are-we-waiting-for-him-to-be-physically-reborn-or/645576.md?page=7)