# Jesus Christ Superstar and the Film's place in History **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 25, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498 "2015-04-25T04:11:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/21 "2015-04-25T20:51:35Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I liked it because it was condemned sight unseen by the clergy. Anything that gets the churches’ knickers in a twist is fine by me. Besides, it was fun hearing my kids singing the lyrics. I liked “Hair” as well, but having the kids singing “Emanci-motherfuckin’-pator of the slaves” didn’t seem like a good idea. Yeah, it was watching “Let The Sunshine In” that actually reminded me of JCSS… ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/22 "2015-04-25T21:10:38Z")
> [@singular1](#): > > I feel puny after that great post, but all I wish to add is that I first camr it love that as an album, spending endless hours listening and imagining the story. The movie was good, but it never matched the opera I had seen in my head while listening. I love both versions, but I’m happier with the one I made up. Me, too. I first heard it as an album, and it’s really the only musical theater (Broadway or opera) that ever really moved me. I love Yvonne Elliman singing the hell out of “I Don’t Know How To Love Him”, but I’d call “Gethsemane” the greatest song on the album. Certainly it’s the most passionate, and arguably the one that sums up the whole story. (“Bleed me, beat me, kill me, take me now. Before I change my mind.”) As far as churches hating or loving it, note that the opera’s first and last songs are Judas’.\* _Jesus Christ Superstar_ is as mich his story as Jesus’. \*Yes, I know “The Crucifixion” and “John 19:41” come after “Superstar”. But Judas is the last to sing in the opera. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/23 "2015-04-25T21:33:49Z")
Actually, I was asking Chefguy if he was around when it came out. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/24 "2015-04-25T21:34:18Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > The year is 1998 and I’m 16 years old. > [@Robert163](#): > > I was born in 1972 It took you a really long time to turn 16. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/25 "2015-04-25T21:42:08Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Actually, I was asking Chefguy if he was around when it came out. Yeah, I was 26 in 1973. I remember the Catholic diocese condemning the film, claiming that it portrayed Mary Magdalene as a prostitute, and that she and JC got way too cozy, among other things. When questioned by the reporter as to whether or not he’d seen the film, the Bishop said ‘no’, and that he had no intention of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/26 "2015-04-25T21:50:16Z")
Ah, I preferred the original, album, version. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/27 "2015-04-25T22:06:48Z")
This problem often happens anytime a hugely successful play is made into a film. Musicals doubly so. JCSS the play (and soundtrack) are what’s remembered, the movie not as much. And although I liked the film, I think that’s deserved. Especially where a _musical_ stage play is concerned the optimal medium for it is a live performance or a professional audio recording. JCSS the film also suffered because film musicals were decidedly on their way out in the 70s. Instead of a big, lavish production previous plays like \*My Fair Lady \*and \*The King & I \*were given, the times called for a more bare bones, less literal presentation. Consequently some of that worked, but some of it just appears really visually campy today. Interestingly things have changed in recent times, with stuff like \*Moulin Rouge \*and Tim Burton’s \*Sweeney Todd \*being successful (I loved both!) And I don’t have a site, but I seem to remember hearing that at one point the Pope (maybe John Paul II) screened JCSS and liked it. Or at least liked its message and certainly did not hate it overall. And I have to point out that 70s and 80s porn legend [Paul Thomas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Thomas_%28pornographic_actor%29) started out a legitimate actor and plays Peter in the film\*!\* ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/28 "2015-04-25T22:28:51Z")
You are all wrong. _Jesus Christ Superstar_ embodied 1972. _ **Godspell** _ was 1973, a much, much worse year. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/29 "2015-04-25T22:37:32Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I was first introduced to it through the original concept album with Ian Gillan and Murray Head- both of whom give performances that make Ted Neeley and Carl Anderson come across as talent show hopefuls in comparison (as far as I’m concerned). I agree. In fact, a couple three years ago, I started a thread here criticizing Neeley’s performance. That said, the movie is enjoyable. It’s just that the music and singing is not quite as good as the album. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/30 "2015-04-26T00:23:04Z")
I still find it hard to imagine ALW writing it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/31 "2015-04-26T00:52:03Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > This problem often happens anytime a hugely successful play is made into a film. Musicals doubly so. JCSS the play (and soundtrack) are what’s remembered, the movie not as much. And although I liked the film, I think that’s deserved. Especially where a _musical_ stage play is concerned the optimal medium for it is a live performance or a professional audio recording. JCSS the film also suffered because film musicals were decidedly on their way out in the 70s. Instead of a big, lavish production previous plays like \*My Fair Lady \*and \*The King & I \*were given, the times called for a more bare bones, less literal presentation. Consequently some of that worked, but some of it just appears really visually campy today. I understand what you’re saying as a general principle - some filmed versions of musicals don’t really add anything to the stage version. But I strongly disagree that the 1973 film of _Jesus Christ Superstar_ is an example of this. Jewison took what was a strong play and added a lot of visual depth to it that couldn’t have been done on stage. Look at this [early scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF2lwwxoQNU) of Judas singing “Heaven on Their Minds” to Jesus. On stage, Judas would have been singing a few yards away from Jesus. If you just listen to the song or see it performed on stage, it’s about Judas trying to help Jesus and Jesus ignoring Judas’ warning. The deeper context is that Judas doesn’t understand Jesus’ real mission - but he’s trying to help Jesus within the context of what he understands. It makes Judas at this point in the story seem like a misguided but sympathetic character. But in the film, there’s the visually interesting overlapping tracking shots that open the scene and emphasize the physical size of the setting. The shots of Judas singing are framed so he’s isolated in a larger screen. These scenes are alternated with Jesus talking to the other disciples and apparently ignoring what Judas is saying to him. But then at the end of the song, Jewison finally puts Judas and Jesus in the same frame together and we see that Judas has been standing a couple of miles away from Jesus. This makes you realize that Jesus wasn’t ignoring Judas - the reality was that Judas had chosen to separate himself from Jesus. And it reveals how insincere Judas is - he’s delivering his “warning” far outside of Jesus’ range of hearing. The song isn’t about Judas trying to help Jesus - it’s really about Judas justifying to himself the fact that he’s abandoned Jesus. And this all comes from the visual setting of the scene rather than the song itself. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/32 "2015-04-26T01:14:24Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > And I have to point out that 70s and 80s porn legend [Paul Thomas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Thomas_%28pornographic_actor%29) started out a legitimate actor and plays Peter in the film\*!\* I’m pretty sure he plays the Peter role in all his films. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/33 "2015-04-26T01:27:28Z")
Thanks, Chefguy. As I said, there were churches where it was hated, but there were also ones where people liked it. More recently, it was endorsed by the Pope: > **[Vatican endorses Superstar musical](https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/dec/15/rorycarroll)** > > The hit musical Jesus Christ Superstar was endorsed for the first time by the Vatican yesterday - ending three decades of Roman Catholic ire against its authors, Tim Rice and Lord Lloyd-Webber. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/34 "2015-04-26T01:37:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Yeah, I was 26 in 1973. I remember the Catholic diocese condemning the film, claiming that it portrayed Mary Magdalene as a prostitute, and that she and JC got way too cozy, among other things. When questioned by the reporter as to whether or not he’d seen the film, the Bishop said ‘no’, and that he had no intention of doing so. I was only a kid when it came out. I have to ask- Was there any outcry or controversy in casting a black actor as Judas? Was the original London or Broadway cast actor black? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/35 "2015-04-26T01:59:56Z")
The first person to play Judas was Murray Head, otherwise known as the brother of Giles from _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_. Ben Vereen was another early Judas. Carl Anderson did get a little hassling about his playing Judas, but mostly people just accepted it. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/36 "2015-04-26T03:07:54Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Just dropped by to say that I think 1973 is my fave year. _Even the baseball cards were cool_. Yeah, they were good but they had nothing on the [1972](http://www.vintagecardprices.com/pics/1856/146985.jpg) [Topps](https://www.gfg.com/baseball/72t559.jpg)[baseball](http://www.baseball-cards.com/jpgs/a/a72-a.jpg) [cards](http://www.vintagecardprices.com/pics/1856/150457.jpg). You gotta love that Peter Max-esque psychedelic border design. And now back to “Jesus Christ Superstar and the Film’s place in History.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/37 "2015-04-26T03:18:20Z")
I like \*Godspell \*better and I think most of the music and the message were both better. Overall _JCS_ was kind of eh. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/38 "2015-04-26T03:41:38Z")
I have never met anyone who liked JCS and Godspell equally. You pretty much have to pick sides. (I hate Godspell. Hate the movie, hate the stageshow, hate the whole bloody concept. So twee. So very very twee. There are literally 5 seconds of depth when Jesus realizes the shit is about to hit the fan that I like, but sitting through the rest of the irritating patronizing happy happy is more than I’m willing to put up with for it.) I had the JCS album first, and that’s my first love. I was “Mary’s woman #3” or something in a college production of it, which was fun, but not the most interesting or challenging show to be in. The movie…has grown on me a little bit. It was too abstract and artsy fartsy for me for a long time; the costuming and anachronistic weaponry bugged the hell out of me. But I’ve learned to get over it, although I tend to put the movie on when I’m only half watching it working on something else. But I will admit that most of what I know of the New Testament comes from JCS. And having your four year old singing “This Jesus must DIE!” and “Crucify him! Crucify him! Crucify, crucify, crucify him!” at the top of his lungs in the grocery store is kind of embarrassing. I do absolutely love the humanizing of Judas, and found your post very interesting, **Little Nemo**. Right on. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/39 "2015-04-26T12:53:21Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > You gotta love that Peter Max-esque psychedelic border design. I read about Peter Max designing the art for a [cruise liner](http://www.shipcruise.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/NCL-Norwegian-Breakaway-cruise-ship.jpg) a couple of years ago and I was amazed to find out he’s still alive and working. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/40 "2015-04-26T12:59:35Z")
_Godspell_ is for purity ring wearing church group kids who think they’re “edgy”. ETA: “Day By Day” is one of the worst songs in the history of sound. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498.md?page=3)