# Jesus Christ Superstar and the Film's place in History **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 25, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498 "2015-04-25T04:11:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/41 "2015-04-26T13:08:14Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > _Godspell_ is for purity ring wearing church group kids who think they’re “edgy”. > ETA: “Day By Day” is one of the worst songs in the history of sound. Funny thing is I’m an agnostic that seriously doubts the divinity of Jesus in particular and left the RCC by age 8. I just like the hippy vibe of Godspell; I guess, the shots of NYC and I like the music more importantly. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/42 "2015-04-26T13:11:39Z")
The '73 version of _JCS_ is just all right with me. Of course, I also love _Hair_ the movie. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/43 "2015-04-26T15:01:58Z")
I liked JCSS but I LOVED Godspell. Yes, it was twee, but the songs were pretty catchy. City of Man and Turn Back, O Man. Skipping around an empty NY City. Pity most of the cast seemed to die young or never went anywhere, excepting Victor Garber (and Lynne Thigpen who did some TV work. Also died young.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/44 "2015-04-26T15:41:30Z")
\*Hair \*was indeed another musical I thought was better than JCSS. > [@salinqmind](#): > > I liked JCSS but I LOVED Godspell. Yes, it was twee, but the songs were pretty catchy. City of Man and Turn Back, O Man. Skipping around an empty NY City. Pity most of the cast seemed to die young or never went anywhere, excepting Victor Garber (and Lynne Thigpen who did some TV work. Also died young.) The lack of success was due to the rarity of pretty much taking a Broadway cast in whole to make a movie. No Hollywood stars in the cast. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/45 "2015-04-27T15:21:06Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Superstar is not a musical, it is an opera. I hate musicals. I love Superstar. It’s a distinction without difference to me. ---
**Author:** ![dada2fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ccd318/32.png) [@dada2fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dada2fish)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/46 "2015-04-27T17:42:47Z")
**WhyNot’s** post is straight outta my brain. Yes Godspell=twee. I was raised on the JCSS album and didn’t see the movie until years later and then the live show even many more years alter. Ted Neely does a terrific job, but nobody can outdo Ian Gillan’s chilling version of Gethsemene. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/47 "2015-04-27T20:01:51Z")
I didn’t even know it was a movie, though I’ve seen it on stage a number of times. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/48 "2015-04-27T20:17:09Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I’m always ready to jump in with high praise for _Jesus Christ Superstar_ …until it’s specified “the movie”. > > **Robert163** , can I ask, was the movie your initial introduction to _JCS_? > Long ago, I came up with the theory that the only people who could love the movie version would have to be people who were exposed to the movie first. Over the years a few people, offering themselves as counterexamples, started chipping away at this theory but I just can’t wrap my head around the exceptions. . . . . Can I ask if the exceptions saw it as a play? Or did they only listen to the album? ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/49 "2015-04-27T21:04:59Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I agree. In fact, a couple three years ago, I started a thread here criticizing Neeley’s performance. > > That said, the movie is enjoyable. It’s just that the music and singing is not quite as good as the album. Not many singers can go up against a 1972 Ian Gillan, who’ll always be my favourite rock vocalist: he was cast as Jesus on the JCSS album after Rice and Lloyd-Webber heard him sing Child In Time for Deep Purple. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/50 "2015-04-28T04:28:45Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Long ago, I came up with the theory that the only people who could love the movie version would have to be people who were exposed to the movie first. Over the years a few people, offering themselves as counterexamples, started chipping away at this theory but I just can’t wrap my head around the exceptions. > [@Yllaria](#): > > Can I ask if the exceptions saw it as a play? Or did they only listen to the album? Well, I never kept a list of all these crazy people so I can’t cite hard facts for you but I’m sure most (if not all) of them knew the album first. Then, probably, some of them had also seen a stage performance. Sorry I can’t give you a better answer. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/51 "2015-04-28T06:03:05Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I have never met anyone who liked JCS and Godspell equally. You pretty much have to pick sides. (I hate Godspell. Hate the movie, hate the stageshow, hate the whole bloody concept. So twee. So very very twee. There are literally 5 seconds of depth when Jesus realizes the shit is about to hit the fan that I like, but sitting through the rest of the irritating patronizing happy happy is more than I’m willing to put up with for it.) I guess I’m an outlier, since I like each equally. That being said, I see each as two different stories. JCS tells the story of the Passion, of Palm Sunday to Easter Sunday. Godspell doesn’t do that; it displays parables from the Book of Matthew, and ends in the Crucifixion (because how else do you end the story of Jesus?). It seems to me that Godspell is more focused on the lessons from Matthew, while JCS is focused on the last week of Jesus’ life. Regardless, each has catchy music. I can still sing King Herod’s Song from JCS (“Prove to me that you’re no fool/Walk across my swimming pool”) and “It’s All for the Best” from Godspell; and in the same show, you can’t beat the line “C’mere, Jesus, I’ve got something to show ya!” ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/52 "2015-04-28T18:50:31Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Question, what is Manchester England referring too? Also, I love the line “I believe in God and God believes in Claude, that’s me, that’s me.” (re: Hair, not JCS) If I recall correctly, the momentary reference to Manchester, England in “Let the Sun Shine” is an earlier song in \*Hair[/] and they just encapsulated a bit of it at the end. Typical stunt for a musical, throw in a reprise of stuff the audience heard earlier. Aah, [here we go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqzFIvieiB4). EDIT: or… were you asking what the heck that very song, itself, is about? Dunno on that one. Sort of a throwaway song, didn’t have much to do with the plot aside from sort of building the characters of Berger and Bukowski. ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/53 "2015-04-28T19:21:18Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Superstar is not a musical, it is an opera. I hate musicals. I love Superstar. > [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s a distinction without difference to me. JCS is NOT an opera, and it IS a musical (though for some reason I hate using the word “musical” as a noun. I always think a “work of musical theater”). Think of opera as classical music with staged action and musical theater as a play where people sing stuff (in general). I can’t disagree with **bienville’s** criticisms of the '73 movie, but I must say it’s exactly the campy, dated, 70’s trippiness that I love about it. (For another campy trippy dated 70’s film about Jesus that I love, see **Greaser’s Palace** - the JC story as a western where everyone seems to be on LSD). Incidentally on the topic of Hair, I was involved in a production a few years back and I was completely surprised by how the original show bears absolutely no resemblance at all to the movie. I fell in love with the show (I guess I have a thing for dated camp), I’m kinda meh about the movie, but I will admit I understand why it was changed so dramatically. The show has no real plot. It’s just like one huge montage of everything 60s hippy culture. Love it! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/54 "2015-04-28T20:00:25Z")
Loved the record when I first heard it back in 1971, and still do. (Though I must say that even the original recording turns Jesus into such a whiner that you wonder why anyone would have followed him in the first place.) But the movie version never did much for me. I think the point at which the movie became a real clunker for me was when you’ve got a bunch of dancers doing calisthenics to “Christ you know I love you, did you see I waved” and Simon the Zealot tells Jesus that there’s his army that can overthrow the Romans. There’s a limit to suspension of disbelief, and this easily cleared that bar. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/55 "2015-04-28T20:00:41Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I was first introduced to it through the original concept album with Ian Gillan and Murray Head- both of whom give performances that make Ted Neeley and Carl Anderson come across as talent show hopefuls in comparison (as far as I’m concerned). That is the core of it for me. Although I like Carl Anderson better than Neeley. Neeley is a weak voiced nothing in the film. Ian Gillan blows the needle off the record. With Carl Anderson I don’t mind his more R&B take on the songs but the one song that makes me cringe is Simon Zealotes/Poor Jerusalem. The end of that song is my favorite bit by Murray Head. When Anderson does it he goes into an epileptic fit. Top to bottom the original concept album is vastly superior. I wore out my brother’s album. I think I still have it somewhere. And I am totally non-religious. I just like the music. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/56 "2015-04-28T20:21:23Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I have never met anyone who liked JCS and Godspell equally. You pretty much have to pick sides. [Argument Clinic]No, you don’t. [/A.C.] Seriously, they both have their very different strengths and weaknesses. _Superstar_ aims higher, but it has the problem I’ve already mentioned, that its Jesus is a big whiner. (One of his first lines: “You’ll be lost, and you’ll be so, _so_ sorry, when I’m _ **goooooone!** _”) It has songs that are stronger on their own than anything from _Godspell._ But let’s face it, Jesus has nothing for us in _Superstar_. He’s just some pop star who’s lost his magic, and has to commit suicide by cross at age [del]27[/del] 33. _Godspell_ aims lower, and can definitely be downright smarmy at times. The songs don’t aim for greatness (most of them were swiped from the Episcopal hymnbook, with new music from Stephen Schwartz), but most of them are still pretty good. And sure, there’s no dramatic depth, but at least there’s a sense of what Jesus’ message was. > [@bienville](#): > > _Godspell_ is for purity ring wearing church group kids who think they’re “edgy”. And “God Save the People,” the second song on the album, is a big in-your-face to the politics of their tribe, which are that God shouldn’t bother, and they certainly aren’t going to. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/57 "2015-04-28T20:30:05Z")
I remember seeing Godspell on weekend daytime TV when I was a kid. I was bored with it then. I think this was when my sister was going through her religious phase. Now it’s just cool to see a very young Victor Garber and Lynne Thigpen and to hear them both sing. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/58 "2015-04-28T20:47:02Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > With Carl Anderson I don’t mind his more R&B take on the songs but the one song that makes me cringe is Simon Zealotes/Poor Jerusalem. The end of that song is my favorite bit by Murray Head. When Anderson does it he goes into an epileptic fit. But Head isn’t involved in that song. It’s just Gillen as Jesus, and John Gustavsen as Simon (plus a chorus). (Nor, in the movie, is Carl Andersen’s Judas, except as an observer. The singing is Simon and the chorus for Simon Zealotes and Jesus for Poor Jerusalem.) ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/59 "2015-04-28T20:47:14Z")
> [@Moe](#): > > JCS is NOT an opera, and it IS a musical (though for some reason I hate using the word “musical” as a noun. I always think a “work of musical theater”). Think of opera as classical music with staged action and musical theater as a play where people sing stuff (in general). > > I can’t disagree with **bienville’s** criticisms of the '73 movie, but I must say it’s exactly the campy, dated, 70’s trippiness that I love about it. (For another campy trippy dated 70’s film about Jesus that I love, see **Greaser’s Palace** - the JC story as a western where everyone seems to be on LSD). > > Incidentally on the topic of Hair, I was involved in a production a few years back and I was completely surprised by how the original show bears absolutely no resemblance at all to the movie. I fell in love with the show (I guess I have a thing for dated camp), I’m kinda meh about the movie, but I will admit I understand why it was changed so dramatically. The show has no real plot. It’s just like one huge montage of everything 60s hippy culture. Love it! Hey, pal, I don’t need instruction from you on what constitutes an opera or a musical. It sure the shit IS an opera, it says so on the original album CD and Wikipedia says it’s a [rock opera](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Christ_Superstar), as well. It’s been billed as a rock opera since day one. You want to argue with Robert Stigwood, that’s YOUR business. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498/60 "2015-04-28T20:49:41Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > But Head isn’t involved in that song. It’s just Gillen as Jesus, and John Gustavsen as Simon (plus a chorus). (Nor, in the movie, is Carl Andersen’s Judas, except as an observer. The singing is Simon and the chorus for Simon Zealotes and Jesus for Poor Jerusalem.) :smack: you are absolutely right. Still hate the movie version. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-superstar-and-the-films-place-in-history/718498.md?page=4)