# Jesus Christ, this anti-Muslim shit scares me
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 22, 2006, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171 "2006-12-22T03:12:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/41 "2006-12-26T00:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull]
They didn’t have a place to go. They are free to leave Iran for Israel and to return. Quite a few seem to want to stay there, more than anywhere else in the Middle East. Sure it sucks to be them there. Not as bad as being a Palestinian living under ethnic & religious apartheid of the Jewish Israeli state of course, and certainly not anywhere as bad as Nazi Germany.
[/QUOTE]
Au contrair. Plenty of Jews left Germany. Albert Einstein, for instance. And as for “quite a few” wanting to stay in Iran … [this article](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html) puts the current population at about 25,000, down 75% since 1948. That’s not “quite a few,” that’s the equivalent of one small town in a country of about [69 million people](https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html).
The persecution detailed in the first article I linked to, as well as the precipitous drop in the Iranian Jewish population it describes, makes it sound like it’s every bit as bad to be them or worse than it is to be Palestinian. And they are leaving, unlike you claimed.
So, it sounds like Iran’s _ISLAMIC_ government–they who host Holocaust denial conferences and persecute their Jewish citizens–has a lot in common with Nazi Germany. Guess the U.S. doesn’t have a monopoly on prejudice, racism and xenophobia.
---
### Author:  [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/42 "2006-12-26T01:07:00Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull]
They didn’t have a place to go. They are free to leave Iran for Israel and to return. Quite a few seem to want to stay there, more than anywhere else in the Middle East. Sure it sucks to be them there. Not as bad as being a Palestinian living under ethnic & religious apartheid of the Jewish Israeli state of course, and certainly not anywhere as bad as Nazi Germany.
[/QUOTE]
Au contrair. Plenty of Jews left Germany. Albert Einstein, for instance. And as for “quite a few” wanting to stay in Iran … [this article](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html) puts the current population at about 25,000, down 75% since 1948. That’s not “quite a few,” that’s the equivalent of one small town in a country of about [69 million people](https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html).
The persecution detailed in the first article I linked to, as well as the precipitous drop in the Iranian Jewish population it describes, makes it sound like it’s every bit as bad to be them or worse than it is to be Palestinian. And they are leaving, unlike you claimed.
So, it sounds like Iran’s _ISLAMIC_ government–they who host Holocaust denial conferences and persecute their Jewish citizens–has a lot in common with Nazi Germany. Guess the U.S. doesn’t have a monopoly on prejudice, racism and xenophobia.
---
### Author:  [@42Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42Geek)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/43 "2006-12-26T02:38:37Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I can certainly say why I think of hatred when I hear “Islam.”
That’s an extreme form of Islam. Really pisses me off that those all godly loving Christians are so prejudicated about a religiion. You really can’t generalize. It is ONE form of Islam. ONE. And I mean, its ironic as hell. Baptists and a lot of brimstone and hellfire types, believe stuff that is pretty much identical to some of those Muslim fundies. I mean the Left Behind books, the Christian Reconstrunctionists, etc etc…freaky and scary stuff…and yet, change the skin color and the Offical Name of God and sundenly it’s THE EVIL!!!
---
### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/44 "2006-12-26T02:45:45Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard]
I can certainly say why _I_ [think of hatred](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6167695.stm) when I hear “Islam.”
[/QUOTE]
I think of hatred when I hear “Christianity.” I do. Because I associate that word (not specific sects) with homophobia, fundamentalism, and right wing nuttery. Every Brownback, Dobson, Robertson, Falwell, Parsley, Blackwell, Santorum, etc. makes that association stronger.
But I don’t want Christians to be tattooed or rounded up. I’ll admit to wishing a nasty case of pinkeye on whole congregations, though.
---
### Author:  [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/45 "2006-12-28T00:18:05Z")
[QUOTE=42Geek]
That’s an extreme form of Islam. Really pisses me off that those all godly loving Christians are so prejudicated about a religiion. You really can’t generalize. It is ONE form of Islam. ONE. And I mean, its ironic as hell. Baptists and a lot of brimstone and hellfire types, believe stuff that is pretty much identical to some of those Muslim fundies. I mean the Left Behind books, the Christian Reconstrunctionists, etc etc…freaky and scary stuff…and yet, change the skin color and the Offical Name of God and sundenly it’s THE EVIL!!!
[/QUOTE]
Of course, the difference is that whatever you might think of George Bush, this country is a long, long way from being a theocracy like Iran. Imagine if Bush had to literally consult with Jerry Falwell before deciding policy.
Religious prejudices are not limited to across religions; both islam and Christianity have internal prejudices between different sects. A lot of Protestant communities in the United States had (or have) serious prejudices against Catholics. There was talk of this influencing the presidential campaign of John F. Kennedy, as recently as 1960. There’s also plenty of prejudice against Jehovah’s Witnesse, Mormons, etc.
Islam? The Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq are busy slaughtering each other right now. The late Sunni terrorist leader Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi is on record as stating Shiites deserved to die just like any Westerner. Sounds like we’re even over here, or maybe even ahead, since nobody in the U.S. is finding the dead bodies of Catholics with their heads cut off anywhere.
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/46 "2006-12-28T00:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard]
Of course, the difference is that whatever you might think of George Bush, this country is a long, long way from being a theocracy like Iran. Imagine if Bush had to literally consult with Jerry Falwell before deciding policy.
[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t matter much if he doesn’t _have_ to if he _does_ so anyway. Or similar fundies; it doesn’t matter if it’s Fallwell specifically, or even his own Inner Fundie he’s consulting. No, America isn’t a theocracy like Iran _yet_, but it’s well along the way.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/47 "2006-12-28T02:01:03Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
[Always remember:](http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERniemoller.htm)
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me.
[/QUOTE]
Nitpick: Martin Niemoller’s actual words are [just a little different.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...) (He didn’t mention the Jews.) But it means the same.
---
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/48 "2006-12-28T04:09:52Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Nitpick: Martin Niemoller’s actual words are [just a little different.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...) (He didn’t mention the Jews.) But it means the same.
[/QUOTE]
Nitpick of a nitpick: 🙂
If you [read through the longish Bio I linked to](http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERniemoller.htm) and scan down to **(21)** they credit the “They came for the Jews” version to him also in 1946. My link is at least as credible as a wikipedia entry and probably more so. Furthermore, while this is apparently not the original version of his poem, it is the best known version of his poem.
Jim
---
### Author:  [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/49 "2006-12-28T04:22:52Z")
It goes to show how small minded people are about groups. When one small minority of a religious group does something terrible, the whole group gets labeled. Just the way it is, it’s been no different for Christians and abortion clinic bombers.
Seriously, there is another board I go to that is so full of contempt for Christians (simply due to the fact that it’s pro-choice board and there have been hundreds of clinic bombing debates), it’s ridiculous. Let’s face it, Muslims do have a bad name, but I would even go so far as to say, so do Christians.
---
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/50 "2006-12-28T04:42:16Z")
[QUOTE=diggleblop]
It goes to show how small minded people are about groups. When one small minority of a religious group does something terrible, the whole group gets labeled. Just the way it is, it’s been no different for Christians and abortion clinic bombers.
Seriously, there is another board I go to that is so full of contempt for Christians (simply due to the fact that it’s pro-choice board and there have been hundreds of clinic bombing debates), it’s ridiculous. Let’s face it, Muslims do have a bad name, but I would even go so far as to say, so do Christians.
[/QUOTE]
Fair, but is anyone suggesting they be “TATTOOED and have special marks on their licenses and passports?”
Jim
---
### Author:  [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/51 "2006-12-28T12:59:03Z")
\*\*Lizard \*\* - How do you feel about the sentiments mentioned in the OP? How does the fact that Americans are calling for Muslims to be tattooed make you feel?
Based on your reaction to the conference in Iran, am I right in assuming that you feel people \*should \* be scared of Islam and Muslims? Do you think Rep. Goode has a point?
---
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/52 "2006-12-28T22:23:16Z")
Here’s a silly question, one I honestly don’t know the answer to: is tattooing prohibited in Islam?
---
### Author:  [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/53 "2006-12-28T22:29:26Z")
[IslamOnline.net says tattooing is prohibited in Islam](http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503543310&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar), for what it’s worth.
---
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/54 "2006-12-28T22:41:33Z")
Thanks, **bluethree**. Now I can post that a call for tatooing Muslims ranks as low and as despicable as a call to forcefeed them pork (yes, I’ve heard someone IRL suggest that). Isn’t it amazing to see the “Good Christians” calling for actions that actually go against the teachings of Christianity?
Perhaps _amazing_ isn’t the word I’m seeking. _Sad_ may be the right word.
---
### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/55 "2006-12-28T22:56:27Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23]
Not true. They learned it was wrong to do that to _Jews_. This is about _Muslims_. It’s COMPLETELY different! Through a process of elimination, humanity is gradually figuring out which groups it’s okay to oppress and which it isn’t.
:smack:
[/QUOTE]
Thank Thor I’m straight! :eek:
-Joe
---
### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/56 "2006-12-28T23:34:06Z")
[QUOTE=Monty]
Thanks, **bluethree**. Now I can post that a call for tatooing Muslims ranks as low and as despicable as a call to forcefeed them pork (yes, I’ve heard someone IRL suggest that).
[/QUOTE]
I would think that would work about as well as the Romans’ attempt to make early Christians into good Romans by forcing them to sacrifice to the Roman gods. Some people not only have no idea of the teachings of their religion, they’re ignorant of its history as well.
---
### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/57 "2006-12-28T23:36:12Z")
[QUOTE=Monty]
Thanks, **bluethree**. Now I can post that a call for tatooing Muslims ranks as low and as despicable as a call to forcefeed them pork (yes, I’ve heard someone IRL suggest that). Isn’t it amazing to see the “Good Christians” calling for actions that actually go against the teachings of Christianity?
[/QUOTE]
Really? I’d have ranked the tattooing as a good deal lower than the pork-feeding, even before I knew that there was a religious prohibition against it.
---
### Author:  [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/58 "2006-12-29T10:32:43Z")
AFAIK - if a Muslim is \*forced \* to do something that is against his religion - by either coercion or in order to save his own life - then there is no onus on him as a victim. For example, if he’s stuck in a desert with nothing to drink except wine, he can drink the wine rather than die of thirst and it won’t be held against him. Similarly if a Muslim is forcefed pork or is held down and tattooed against his will, he’s not accountable. Muslims are even allowed to deny that they are Muslims if it will save their life. If I remember correctly, Spanish Muslims were forced to do just that during the Inquisition. They even went so far as to hang hams in their shop windows and live outwardly as Christians, all the while secretly maintaining their true faith.
None of this, however absolves the aggressor in the above examples in any way. Tattooing Muslims and forcefeeding them pork is despicable no matter what.
---
### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171/59 "2006-12-29T10:54:26Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard]
Of course, the difference is that whatever you might think of George Bush, this country is a long, long way from being a theocracy like Iran. Imagine if Bush had to literally consult with Jerry Falwell before deciding policy.
[/QUOTE]
It’s worse, he thinks that God talks to him. When this was on the news, my daily-Mass Mom turned to me and said “I thought those guys were called ‘schizophrenic’?”
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-christ-this-anti-muslim-shit-scares-me/385171.md?page=2)