# Jesus Could Not Rise If He Was Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2012, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614 "2012-01-06T11:23:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/101 "2012-01-08T15:12:50Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > If we took the life of Jesus as reported, perhaps not as it would appear that a ‘soul’ or ‘spirit’ can be placed in another body. His conception was not normal, Jesus being of the heavens was placed inside the womb of Mary by something we would call God. If today we had that capability, would anyone want to try to experience live as a wild animal, by living out that live, then pulled out at the point of that animal’s death? > > Also at the cross His words are ‘Father into your hands I commit my spirit’ . If we take the model as proposed, this would seem indicate that it is likely that the spirit can be removed from the body. > > We have yet to discover if a soul/spirit actually exists, but it is not ruled out. If it is real then it would not be a clone, but actually the same ‘spirit’. Actually I do not want to derail this derailed thread but there is absolutely no evidence that a “spirit” exists and biologically we do have explanations for behavior, so it would be a clone despite any mental gymnastics. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/102 "2012-01-08T17:33:55Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > If the body decomposes, does the spirit leave the body? > > If the body is recomposed, does the spirit return to the body? Only if the spirit is willing and the flesh is weak. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/103 "2012-01-08T19:34:35Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > OK, **Kanickbird** assume that the spirit is the same as the body. > (That is what you are saying, right?) > If the body decomposes, does the spirit leave the body? > > If the body is recomposed, does the spirit return to the body? Going on the scripture/alien model, the spirit can be separated from the body. The body would really just be a cover, a machine without any consciousness for the spirit to control. This model also allows technology to accomplish the above, take a spirit out of a body and replace it in the same or another. So the spirit can be returned to the body, but doesn’t have to be. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/104 "2012-01-09T00:35:13Z")
Where’s Dr. Frankenstein when we really need him? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/105 "2012-01-09T01:13:28Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Where’s Dr. Frankenstein when we really need him? Didn’t the towns folk lynch him and destroy his lab and writings a while back for proving the spirit was separable from the body or something? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/106 "2012-01-18T10:37:28Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > If I’m reading the OP correctly, I believe that he is questioning how a god can create a universe with the fixed Rule Set X, and then later insert contravening Incident Y. > > The answer is, that if Incident Y occurs, it violates and invalidates the entire Rule Set X. The important thing to remember is that this god itself exists outside of Rule Set X. > > This god is omnipotent and omniscient and can do whatever it wants. It can create a universe with Rule Set X, Rule Set Y, Rule Set XY, or whatever. > > However, once creating a universe with Rule Set X, in order for this universe to exist properly, the set of rules must be abided by, and not interfered with, otherwise it all unravels. Thankyou thankyou, that is exactly what I’m asking. > [@Trinopus](#): > > …Once cell tissue has degraded, and the body has decomposed, then the information in the cells is permanently lost. It cannot be recovered. > > You can’t reconstitute a piece of wood from burned coals and ashes: vital bits of information (such as the growth rings) are simply gone forever. > > It’d be like resurrecting an ice-sculpture once it has melted. Y’just can’t. The water no longer “remembers” the pretty sculpture. The pattern no longer exists, anywhere. > > A “miraculous” spiritual power might (or might not) be able to do it. Who knows? The notion is beyond our ability to explore. > > But within any conceivable rules of technology, nu-uh. The body would have rotted beyond any means of repair. My point exactly. Whether God is within this universe or outside it, there are certain rules inside this structure. Even quantum uncertainty has its rules. So its safe to say that bringing a biological being back from death is impossible. Cloning, copying - that may be possible but not yet and certainly not 2000 years ago. Which then raises the question - why was a resurrection story necessary? Possibly to give weight to the nascent religion and for the symbolism of dying for our sins followed by rebirth. In the context of the times, that was a powerful and effective story. Sacrifice and hope. Still there is a major ethical problem: the most widely spread religion in the world has a falsehood at its core. I do find that troubling. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/107 "2012-01-18T11:02:36Z")
Take Tertullian as your guide. From _De Carne Christi_ Crucifixus est Dei Filius, non pudet, quia pudendum est; et mortuus est Dei Filius, prorsus credibile est, quia ineptum est; et sepultus resurrexit, certum est, quia impossibile. The Son of God was crucified: there is no shame, because it is shameful. And the Son of God died: it is wholly credible, because it is unsound. And, buried, He rose again: **it is certain, because impossible**." There’s a belief with big brass balls. A belief you can admire (even if you don’t share it.) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/108 "2012-01-18T11:09:54Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > Still there is a major ethical problem: the most widely spread religion in the world has a falsehood at its core. I do find that troubling. But _all_ religions have falsehoods at their core. It’s a defining characteristic of religion - whence their requirement for faith, because not a single one of the thousands extant stands up to logical scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/109 "2012-01-20T19:17:31Z")
Substitute “some” for “all” and you have a pretty good idea of what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/110 "2012-01-20T19:39:43Z")
Cite please? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/111 "2012-01-20T19:49:21Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > Cite please? Are you asking yourself for a cite? 😃 In any case, every religion on Earth proposes a supernatural answer (except for whatever non-supernatural religions you might like to put forward, so exempt those) for life’s questions. Nothing supernatural has ever been demonstrated. The evidence points to a mundane universe. Since none of the religions of the world have met the burden of evidence for their supernatural claims, it’s fair to say they all are false. Not necessarily lies, I’m sure many are well-meaning but incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/112 "2012-01-20T19:58:45Z")
No, I was asking Der Trihs to help me by providing a reference to the lines of poetry he quoted: “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons death may die.” I would like to read the poem, if you don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/113 "2012-01-20T20:04:43Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > No, I was asking Der Trihs to help me by providing a reference to the lines of poetry he quoted: “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons death may die.” I would like to read the poem, if you don’t mind. And how many people posted between that quote and your request for a cite? Next time, try to be a bit more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/114 "2012-01-20T20:06:57Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > Substitute “some” for “all” and you have a pretty good idea of what’s going on. If you are referring to this: > [@jjimm](#): > > But all religions have falsehoods at their core. , could you name some religions that don’t qualify? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/115 "2012-01-20T20:08:03Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > No, I was asking Der Trihs to help me by providing a reference to the lines of poetry he quoted: “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons death may die.” I would like to read the poem, if you don’t mind. Call of Cthulhu, HP Lovecraft. If that doesn’t register, then get thee to a library! You have some (very entertaining) reading to do! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/116 "2012-01-20T20:08:16Z")
The answer is but a google away: > **[LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You](https://lmgtfy.app/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fgutenberg.net.au%2Febooks06%2F0600031h.html)** > > For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/117 "2012-01-20T22:05:10Z")
Here’s the link I meant to give when the phone rang: > **[At the Mountains of Madness](http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600031h.html)** > > At the Mountains of Madness, by H.P. Lovecraft, free ebook ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/118 "2012-01-20T22:59:25Z")
Jesus wasn’t all dead; he was only MOSTLY dead. There’s a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there’s usually only one thing you can do. [/Miracle Max] ---
**Author:** ![Paralogic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Paralogic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paralogic)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/119 "2012-01-21T04:09:22Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > Forgive me, this is not a rallying flag for atheists or a call to fervent Christians: its simply something which bothers me and I wonder if there is any rational answer. > > In essence I do not believe the resurrection happened. I look at the universe and the rules of science which God imposed and reversal of death is not possible. Cells break down and bacteria immediately start to consume any dead organic creature. Jesus could not be a special case in this universe. Science does not allow it. > > FYI I’m a Presbyterian, support my church but seldom go, like the biblical stories, and embrace the ethics of Christianity - and humanism. What’s your question? It’s a fact that no human being has ever or will ever “rise” after they’re dead. Bio-cloning techniques from a shred of DNA in the far distant future are excluded… I don’t even know about them. No humans ever “risen”. No gods exist either. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614/120 "2012-01-21T04:17:17Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > Substitute “some” for “all” and you have a pretty good idea of what’s going on. Again, which religions fall into your definition of “some” please? And if there is more than one religion in that group, please demonstrate how they don’t contradict each other (thus negating their inclusion in that group). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-could-not-rise-if-he-was-dead/608614.md?page=5)