# Jesus FUCK how do people deal with Windows???? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 6, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979 "2008-12-06T08:12:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/81 "2008-12-07T19:18:02Z")
[What PC users are getting.](http://www.newmedia2008.com/en/imgs/Project/StarTrek/14.jpg) [What Mac users are getting.](http://www.ohgizmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/monolith.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/82 "2008-12-07T19:19:51Z")
So, has Vista at least closed the gaping security holes that have made Windows such a delight for malware creators? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/83 "2008-12-07T19:20:29Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Yeah, learn how to use overcomplicated software you tossers, leave poor Microsoft alone and let them off for making their shit difficult to use. You bought into it, it’s not much of a surprise that MS makes most of their stuff overcomplicated. ETA: and one can argue Macs are oversimplified. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/84 "2008-12-07T19:20:38Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Yeah, learn how to use overcomplicated software you tossers, leave poor Microsoft alone and let them off for making their shit difficult to use. What is overcomplicated about saving a fucking file? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/85 "2008-12-07T19:21:07Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > [What PC users are getting.](http://www.newmedia2008.com/en/imgs/Project/StarTrek/14.jpg) > > [What Mac users are getting.](http://www.ohgizmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/monolith.jpg) Warning, not for the faint of heart… > **[Charlie Brooker on why he hates Apple Macintosh computers](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/feb/05/comment.media)** > > Charlie Brooker: The Apple Macintosh campaign has taken over magazines, newspapers and the internet. > [@Charlie Brooker](#): > > Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/86 "2008-12-07T19:21:48Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > 'Cuz someone hasn’t learned their rig. Honestly, I don’t know why people complain about this stuff. > > To the world: > **Learn your fucking rig.** In an ideal world, you shouldn’t have to learn your fucking rig. You should just use it. I’ve no idea what goes on under my car’s bonnet, don’t want to know, never will, but it doesn’t stop me driving my car. The user interface - steering wheel, accelerator, windscreen wipers etc - are a doddle to learn, and once learnt, don’t change. Computers will be really grown up toys when you don’t have learn how to be a geek to use them. (And this is from someone who loves his computer - but not unconditionally.) ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/87 "2008-12-07T19:22:14Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > What is overcomplicated about saving a fucking file? My whole point is it shouldn’t be. I know what I’m doing, doesn’t mean I have to like the fact that I have to go through so many pointless steps to do it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/88 "2008-12-07T19:27:46Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Extension? What’s that? Nobody told me about an “extension”! My new user manual didn’t say anything about “extensions”!? That’s only for computer geeks! 🙂 > > As far as a Mac using only one button for the mouse, why do we need two? Why not three? I have five fingers on one hand, why not five buttons? Why not a random number to make it interesting? > > (Just keeping in the spirit of the OP. You can ignore me now.) The first mouse, featured in the [Mother of All Demos](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8734787622017763097&q=engelbart), had three buttons. ([ur=[The Mother of All Demos - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos)]Brief Wiki summary.) My current mouse has four, plus a scroll bar, which equals five in my book. Why can’t macs handle more than one button? Or maybe it’s a user issue… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/89 "2008-12-07T19:28:12Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Then why don’t they ship with one? Lord knows for as much as they over charge for macs another button shouldn’t bankrupt em. Mighty Mouse _is_ multi button. [link](http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/90 "2008-12-07T19:29:46Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > In an ideal world, you shouldn’t have to learn your fucking rig. You should just use it. I’ve no idea what goes on under my car’s bonnet, don’t want to know, never will, but it doesn’t stop me driving my car. The user interface - steering wheel, accelerator, windscreen wipers etc - are a doddle to learn, and once learnt, don’t change. Computers will be really grown up toys when you don’t have learn how to be a geek to use them. (And this is from someone who loves his computer - but not unconditionally.) Learn or die. If you bought a car, that doesn’t have a steering wheel, woe unto you. Or, if you bought a car that uses a system of levers and pulleys to steer, woe unto you. And no, computers are _tools,_ not toys. Just because the computer can be used for entertainment, doesn’t make it a TV. I don’t love my Mac unconditionally, but I’ve invested time learning how to get the most from it. And 98% of the time, I’m happy with it. What’s more, I earn my living using it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/91 "2008-12-07T19:32:14Z")
Mine has eight - wheel vertical, wheel button, wheel left, wheel right, left, right, and two buttons on the side ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/92 "2008-12-07T19:34:26Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > In an ideal world, you shouldn’t have to learn your fucking rig. You should just use it. I’ve no idea what goes on under my car’s bonnet, don’t want to know, never will, but it doesn’t stop me driving my car. The user interface - steering wheel, accelerator, windscreen wipers etc - are a doddle to learn, and once learnt, don’t change. You don’t rent many cars, do you? 😉 Whenever I rent a new model, there are always things “fucked up” about it (my pet peeve is when the gas is on the passengers side, instead of the drivers). While the basic function of the car doesn’t change, the “user interface” can vary widely - just ask my wife who rented a cargo van sight-unseen, only to find that it had a manual gear shift _after_ they had run her card. 😉 And while cars are complicated machines, they’re pretty basic in their function. An operating system is a completely different creature in terms of complexity and functionality and it demands a more intellectually involved user to properly run it. So you’d better to “learn your fucking rig”. And, again, the OP’s issue isn’t even an O/S issue, but a user problem. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/93 "2008-12-07T19:34:31Z")
Look, why is things being easier to use (and making more sense) a bad thing? Do you _want_ to have to click fifteen million times to do a basic task? You are seriousy not helping your argument. And plus you own a Mac so by default your argument is invalid. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/94 "2008-12-07T19:37:34Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Warning, not for the faint of heart… > > [I hate Macs | Charlie Brooker | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/feb/05/comment.media) That whole article is silly, misinformed, immature bullshit. My stance is that Macs take the oversimplify philosophy, and PCs the overcomplicated. They each add up to a user experience that have their own, various pitfalls. Buy into the OS that fits you better. Then, learn it. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/95 "2008-12-07T19:38:45Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Look, why is things being easier to use (and making more sense) a bad thing? Do you _want_ to have to click fifteen million times to do a basic task? You are seriousy not helping your argument. And plus you own a Mac so by default your argument is invalid. I see you’ve never used a Mac. At least I can say I’ve used both, but yes, I’m biased (who isn’t?). ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/96 "2008-12-07T19:38:49Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Learn or die. > > If you bought a car, that doesn’t have a steering wheel, woe unto you. Or, if you bought a car that uses a system of levers and pulleys to steer, woe unto you. But I don’t know of a car that doesn’t have a steering wheel, so I have no woes. > [@](#): > > And no, computers are _tools,_ not toys. Just because the computer can be used for entertainment, doesn’t make it a TV. They are tools to some, and toys to others. I’m not a clairvoyant, but I guarantee that one of the major changes in computers in the future will be to address ease of use issues. > [@](#): > > I don’t love my Mac unconditionally, but I’ve invested time learning how to get the most from it. And 98% of the time, I’m happy with it. What’s more, I earn my living using it. So have I invested time learning, but my wife and my elderly mother would love to use the benefits of a computer without having to be told ‘learn or die’ or spend hours reading a fairly incomprehensible help screen (no manuals today) just get an email. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/97 "2008-12-07T19:42:31Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > **Look, why is things being easier to use (and making more sense) a bad thing?** Do you _want_ to have to click fifteen million times to do a basic task? You are seriousy not helping your argument. And plus you own a Mac so by default your argument is invalid. (bolding mine) As someone has just said in another thread: preach it, brother! ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/98 "2008-12-07T19:42:49Z")
Macs philosophy seems to be - “How can we break new grounds of sheer self-congratulatory elitist ponciness” whether that’s their intention or not, that is definitely how most sensible people perceive it. And Charlie Brooker is a sensible person. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/99 "2008-12-07T19:43:57Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I see you’ve never used a Mac. At least I can say I’ve used both, but yes, I’m biased (who isn’t?). What makes you think I’ve never used a Mac? I have, and I didn’t like it. I felt like sticking my fingers down my throat. Another benefit of things being easier is that the inevitable email I have to send to my team explaining how to do something would be shorter, and there’d be a higher chance they could actually follow it. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/100 "2008-12-07T19:44:03Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > So have I invested time learning, but my wife and my elderly mother would love to use the benefits of a computer without having to be told ‘learn or die’ or spend hours reading a fairly incomprehensible help screen (no manuals today) just get an email. Would you buy them a car before going to driver’s training? If so, would you buy them a stick or an automatic? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979.md?page=6)