# Jesus FUCK how do people deal with Windows???? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 6, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979 "2008-12-06T08:12:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/141 "2008-12-07T23:58:44Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > If I have disdain for anything, it’s for those who can’t be bothered to learn their shit. Own up to it. Take some time and read the fucking manual or watch a tutorial. If the precious version you’re using has changed the interface around in the new version, learn where everything has been shifted. I’m positive there’s documentation somewhere. Things evolve — evolve with it or go extinct. The crux of the complaint is that stuff has shifted for no reason and it takes time to learn it, not that it is impossible to learn it. > [@cmyk](#): > > Would you buy them a car before going to driver’s training? If so, would you buy them a stick or an automatic? Despite your nitpicks, the car analogy is a good one. I rent cars often. It sometimes takes me a few minutes to figure out where the 5 or 6 things you need to know to drive have moved to. The pedals are always the same, the steering wheel is the same, sometimes the lights and wipers and gear shift pattern move around a bit. That’s it. I emphatically _do not_ need to read the manual, and I certainly do not need to look under the hood. Nor do I need (consistently) to go on to the internet to find out how to fix problems that the manual doesn’t even admit exist. This comment isn’t directed at you, **cmyk** , but others above said that hiding system files and extensions is a good idea for novices and simple users. The MS model works on the assumption that (to continue the car analogy) it’s OK to lock off the hood because the normal driver doesn’t need to go there. The problem is that MS’s reliability is such that this simply isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/142 "2008-12-08T00:11:26Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > The problem is that MS’s reliability is such that this simply isn’t true. Actually I found MS software to be very reliable once it ditched the DOS hack OSes (ME and below except anything based on NT). Even Vista is pretty solid. Most of my rage at it comes from what they did to the UI. It defies reason. Were they on crack? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/143 "2008-12-08T00:17:43Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > I beg to differ. I found mouse gestures to be annoying. No problems having them for people that want them, but the vast majority of people are used two buttons and context menus. Context menus Just Work. Unlike gestures if you’re out of practice. > > I don’t wanna have to be paranoid about moving the mouse wrong when using the computer. What the fuck do mac people do when using photoshop? > > Also I’d like a cite of your assertion PCs don’t have sound. It comes standard on the motherboard these days, but you can use a separate sound card if you want. > > See unlike over priced trashy apples, PCs let you have choice. Want high end 7.1 channel surrund sounds? Sure. Want to save money and get decent high fi sound built into the mother board? Sure. > > PCs aren’t control freaks like that over priced garbage apple makes. The soundcard stab was on par with the two-button mouse stab. There was a time when you had to buy most of that stuff separately with PCs. Macs always had it standard. It’s archaic and irrelevant now. Get it? You may find the gestures annoying, but the Mac _has_ them, as well as a multi-button mouse (or any other third-party device you want)… What was all that nonsense about choice you were talking about? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/144 "2008-12-08T00:18:03Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > They’re hidden in Windows too. You just use the folder options to show them, rather than having to find a third-party program. Third-party program? What? You want to see hidden folders, open Terminal, type this: defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE killall Finder You will see hidden folders in Finder. To reverse this, change TRUE to FALSE. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/145 "2008-12-08T00:26:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Third-party program? What? You want to see hidden folders, open Terminal, type this: _shrugs_ Wouldn’t know. I was going off what someone else said. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/146 "2008-12-08T00:42:54Z")
Princhester: How we interface with cars will evolve over time, but _much_ more slowly than a GUI that has no such standards and laws that the auto industry has to work within. GUIs can change on a whim and in far more diverse ways that the mere dashboard of a car can. The problem here is the quantity of diverse things a computer can do. There’s only so many controls and gauges on a car, albeit dozens, but they are in fixed, physical places within a vehicle. On a computer, there are hundreds and hundreds of settings, controls, files and things you can use it for. Here the analogy begins to break down, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/147 "2008-12-08T00:47:09Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Actually I found MS software to be very reliable once it ditched the DOS hack OSes (ME and below except anything based on NT). True and what I said wasn’t well put. I suppose it’s not MS reliability entirely: it’s more that file systems are sufficiently complex, and security and other problems are sufficiently common, that you can’t operate well without knowing extension types and so on. > [@](#): > > Even Vista is pretty solid. Most of my rage at it comes from what they did to the UI. It defies reason. Were they on crack? Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/148 "2008-12-08T00:54:04Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Princhester: > > How we interface with cars will evolve over time, but _much_ more slowly than a GUI that has no such standards and laws that the auto industry has to work within. GUIs can change on a whim and in far more diverse ways that the mere dashboard of a car can. It’s the “whim” thing that’s the problem. Sure, software is improving and becoming more powerful and we need to learn new stuff to cope with that. But when you need to read the manual to find the steering wheel because some guy in marketing thought it would be cool to put it somewhere different, you’re treating your customers with contempt. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/149 "2008-12-08T01:47:20Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > The default setup for Windows is horrendous by any standard. Right after installing Windows, you need to go through and set it up properly. After that, it is just as easy to use as a Mac, and has more versatility. > > I can’t even remember all the things you need to change, but IIRC by default it does not tell you where you are downloading things, and it actually hides file types from you. Crazy stuff. _That_ right there is probably the problem I have with PCs - the only ones I’ve ever used have belonged to my employers and we couldn’t change anything on them. If I didn’t have to go thru that stupid tree every time I wanted a file… ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/150 "2008-12-08T01:54:56Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Third-party program? What? You want to see hidden folders, open Terminal, type this: > > defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE > killall Finder > > You will see hidden folders in Finder. To reverse this, change TRUE to FALSE. Didn’t work on mine? ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/151 "2008-12-08T02:28:21Z")
As usual the Apple crowd goes insane. Be happy with your computer! You are clearly better than the rest of us. We lowly WinXp people will just have to muddle along. Can you feed us a few bread crumbs when you get the time? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/152 "2008-12-08T02:29:40Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Yea terminal is okay. Thank goodness for it too. I couldn’t find any way to diagnosis issues with the driver install without it. > > The Posix tool of dmesg was vary useful, but not as useful or intuitive to use as Window’s Device Manager. Which not only gives you hard ware trouble data but lets manage the drivers without digging through bloody keys folders. > > OSX totally fails at that. > > Why should I need a bloody terminal to see hidden folders though? It’s just stupid. > Besides you ever try moving around files in a hidden folder on OSX? How about editing them? If you’re not familiar with bash commands it’s really arcane. Especially if you don’t know the executable names of OSX file handling tools. Moving them isn’t quiet as arcane if you’re used to the Linux terminal but still not intuitive for most people. > > How many windows users ever have to deal with a fucking terminal just access parts of the file system? Sudo su? Screw you.\* > > In short the only things that give OSX any redemption are things it got from switching to a Unix core. Because the apple parts of OSX are utter garbage. Why not just use Linux with KDE or Gnome? > > \*inb4 security rant. Windows can block off folders from access for security reasons but if you have admin powers you can still access them fairly easily through the GUI if you need to. The point being you retain control of your computer. Not some control freak programmer at Apple. That was a very impressive dissertation. Did you try, perhaps, looking in the help menu? In the Finder, choose File \> Find. Select the location where you want to perform the search. Define your search using the pop-up menus. Choose Other from the pop-up list, then select Visibility in the search attribute list. To add this attribute to the Find dialog’s pop-up menu for easy access, select “Add to Favorites.” Click OK to finish. Choose Invisible from the second pop-up menu. If you want, click the Add (+) button to add additional search criteria. Type letters or words in the search box to begin searching, or click the Search Again button in the lower-right corner of the window. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/153 "2008-12-08T02:45:01Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > To the world: > **Learn your fucking rig.** ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/I1t6zQsjzYE/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/I1t6zQsjzYE?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/154 "2008-12-08T03:19:40Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > Problem Exists Between Computer And Chair, I assume. > > I’ve always seen it was PEBKAC, though. K for keyboard, to rule out the keyboard actually being the problem. 😃 It’s a semi-mechanical problem - loose nut in front of the keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/155 "2008-12-08T16:08:10Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > OK. Fair enough. Let me amend what I wrote. When I use a product, I would think that the easier it is to use, the more sophisticated it is. And to think, all this time, I never appreciated just how sophisticated my bashing stick was. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/156 "2008-12-08T18:17:00Z")
**gravitycrash,** C’mon Join the Convoy! > [@Lobsang](#): > > I don’t hate Macs. I am just the atypical savy-PC user for whom it is fashionable to point out the reasons why there are slightly more PCs in the world than Macs. > > I don’t understand your statement about not wanting to hear about de-evolution. What kind of person wouldn’t want to hear that things shouldn’t de-evolve?? If I were to rephrase that as simplistically as possible it’d be “I want things to de-evolve”. I don’t understand that. > > As for the last part of your post. I did ask (and it was a genuine non-rhetorical question) you to correct me on those points. Regarding de-evolution, it seemed to me that you were lamenting how much Windows (or MS apps) is de-evolving. So, I’m scratching my head as to how you can be so fed up with their product, but still have such a tight grip in defending it. Or something. I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/157 "2008-12-08T18:22:16Z")
My mother, who needs my father to turn the computer on, can operate Windows XP perfectly well. Of course, her folder organization is for shit, but she can find a file when she needs one. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/158 "2008-12-08T18:23:26Z")
She learned her shit. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/159 "2008-12-08T18:25:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > And to think, all this time, I never appreciated just how sophisticated my bashing stick was. OK. Fair enough. Let me amend what I amended. When I use a complicated product, I would think that the easier it is to use, the more sophisticated it is. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979/160 "2008-12-08T18:28:46Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Didn’t work on mine? I’m not sure what to tell you. Works on both of mine. I see a bunch of “.” files (especially “.DS\_Store”) all over my folders. I have to turn it off, because the hidden folders are annoying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-how-do-people-deal-with-windows/475979.md?page=9)