# Jesus Fuck! More Garbage Than You Can Possibly Fucking Imagine! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 7, 2008, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657 "2008-02-07T07:22:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/41 "2008-02-07T23:16:11Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I’m happy to consider, within limits, whatever you would like to cite and quote. Certainly you could try to answer my question: [/QUOTE] [This site](http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/corp_site/info_services/publications/sotr/latest_updates/marine_mammals/whales_and_dolphins)references direct ingestion of waste plastic matter, entanglement in mesh netting (a known component of the Pacific Gyre trash heap) as well as prey depletion as significant causes of whale and dolphin population depletion: > [@Linked Article](#): > > Whales and dolphins may ingest foreign matter such as plastic bags which can lead to serious gastro-intestinal blockages, potentially causing the animal to starve. Whales and dolphins may also become entangled in debris which can hinder their movement and in severe cases cause them to drown. In 2000, a Bryde’s whale with almost six square metres of supermarket bags, food packaging, two-metre long plastic sheets and fragments of garbage bags stranded in Cairns. > > As for dugongs, stranding data suggest that mesh netting is a significant cause of mortality for inshore dolphin species and include confirmed cases of dolphin deaths from mesh net entanglement. However, information on actual numbers of dolphins killed in these nets is limited because entanglements are very rarely reported. For more information on the inshore net fishery see Management status – Fisheries. > > Published data from the Queensland Shark Control Program (1962 to 1995) indicate that incidental catch for the Program included eight humpback whales, approximately 60 other whales, and 630 dolphins. Five of the eight humpback whales were released alive but their post release fate is unknown. On average, 19 dolphins and three whales were caught per year between 1962 and 1995 (Gribble, McPherson & Lane 1998). As there is little information about the population status for whales and dolphins in the Great Barrier Reef, it is unknown whether the mortality of whales and dolphins in shark control equipment has a significant impact on these populations. However, given the inherent susceptibility of these animals, and the cumulative stress of multiple pressures, a precautionary management approach is required. From the “Response” section: > [@Linked Article](#): > > The disposal of waste at sea in the GBRMP is prohibited. While the runoff of litter into the GBRMP from the land is regulated by State and local government and is outside the jurisdiction of the GBRMPA, in recent years some local councils have taken steps to reduce the amount of litter washing into the GBRMP from local waterways and storm water drains. The GBRMPA is working with State and local governments on a wide range of water quality initiatives specifically designed to minimise the impacts of declining water quality on the marine environment (see Environmental status – water quality). The GBRMPA has also produced Best Environmental Practices to educate reef users about the correct disposal of waste. Education programs such as the Reef Guardians program educates school students about reducing the run off of litter into local waterways, and initiates actions to reduce litter at the local community level. Obviously Australia considers dumped plastic trash to be a problem. How about [this site?](http://www.ny4whales.org/) The tone is a little offputting, but it’s targeted toward kids: > [@Linked Article](#): > > For example, did you know that Mylar foil balloons will float for about 10 days, but will never degrade in the environment? Or that latex balloons may take a year to degrade and that their ribbons and string are also often not biodegradable? Did you know that balloon fragments, like plastic bags and wrappers, look like jellyfish or floating plants and are quickly gobbled up by ever-hungry sea birds, turtles, even fish? Did you know that as a baleen whale scoops up thousands of gallons of water to sieve through for its meal, its baleen traps plankton and fish along with cigarette butts, balloon fragments, plastic floating toys, straws, food wrappers and more. A whale can’t pick the trash out from the fish meal it has just sifted from the water. Everything is swallowed! One baby sperm whale died of starvation after it swallowed a Mylar balloon that lodged in its intestines. But wait, [there’s more!](http://www.999today.com/scienceandnature/news/story/14302.html) [The UK recognizes the danger plastic bags and other litter pose to marine wildlife.](http://www.mcsuk.org/newsevents/press_view/195) Okay, there you go. Several other countries who recognize plastic litter as a danger to cetacean as well as other marine animal species and who are enacting taxes on plastic bags in order to reduce the volume of plastic litter that goes into the ocean. [Here’s another link to Charles Moore, which in turn has a bunch more links.](http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Sea-Plastic-LN-PG5oct05.htm) Check out the picture of the large volume of plastic litter found in the dead albatross–figure any animal that eats that bird might also be in danger? Okay, I’ve posted some cites I found with about ten minutes of Google-fu–can you in return show me any reputable research that contraindicates the danger of plastic litter in the oceans? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/42 "2008-02-07T23:28:04Z")
[QUOTE=SmartAleq] Okay, I’ve posted some cites I found with about ten minutes of Google-fu– [/quote] Lol. And not a single one of your quoted passages answers my extremely simple question: > [@](#): > > Ok, then there should have been a massive drop in the dolphin and whale population in the North Pacific due to this “huge problem” right? Extremely simple yes or no question. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/43 "2008-02-07T23:53:52Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Lol. And not a single one of your quoted passages answers my extremely simple question: Extremely simple yes or no question. [/QUOTE] Hey, trollboy–FOAD. It’s too bad you can’t read and/or extrapolate and/or comprehend sentences but it’s not my responsibility to educate you, either. Cunt off, you little toad. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/44 "2008-02-08T00:10:25Z")
But pollution is good! :rolleyes: Why exactly are we talking about whales and dolphins? The original point said nothing about cetaceans specifically. And the effects of plastic pollution on ocean trophic levels are pretty well documented. See Google Scholar for all the documentation you could ever possibly want to wade through. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/45 "2008-02-08T00:14:40Z")
[QUOTE=SmartAleq] Hey, trollboy–FOAD. [/quote] Lol. I guess that means you can’t answer my question. I wonder why. > [@](#): > > It’s too bad you can’t read and/or extrapolate and/or comprehend sentences Lol. The problem is not my reading comprehension – the problem is your inability to think critically. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/46 "2008-02-08T00:15:45Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] Leave the damn thing alone. Right now it’s staying in one spot. If we start poking at it we’ll only make it angry. [/QUOTE] If that was about “Cloverfield”, it should have been spoilerboxed. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/47 "2008-02-08T00:18:35Z")
[QUOTE=Mr Bus Guy] Let’s nuke it. [/QUOTE] That’ll just accelerate its evolutionary progression. It’s already close enough to Tokyo as it is! ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/48 "2008-02-08T00:20:57Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Why exactly are we talking about whales and dolphins? [/quote] I picked out dolphins and whales because they are large creatures, and in my layman’s opinion, a massive drop in their numbers in the North Pacific would likely be noticed. If there is a “huge problem” with fish being poisoned by eating plastic over zooplankton, it ought to have a big effect on the dolphins that feed on the fish. (At least according to the “catastrophe” video that was linked earlier.) A similar argument would apply to whales – either direct poisoning by consuming plastic, or indirect effects caused by an absence of fish or the presence of poisonous fish). ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/49 "2008-02-08T00:21:03Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] I think we need to gather it all up and put it in a rocket and shoot it into space. If it eventually comes back to earth in another 1000 years it will be someone else’s problem. [/QUOTE] Damn it, here I am all ready to post, “Oh my. I’d have thought I would have picked it up on the Smell-O-Scope,” only to find I’d been reference-scooped. Oh well - perhaps you’d be interested in a death clock? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/50 "2008-02-08T00:23:18Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] But pollution is good! :rolleyes: Why exactly are we talking about whales and dolphins? The original point said nothing about cetaceans specifically. And the effects of plastic pollution on ocean trophic levels are pretty well documented. See Google Scholar for all the documentation you could ever possibly want to wade through. [/QUOTE] Yeah, my fault–I bought Troll Food in bulk and it’s the only way to get rid of it. Nothing else will eat it and it’s taking up space in my garage. Silly me–I keep thinking ignorance is mutable, without factoring in the “willful” part! ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/51 "2008-02-08T00:26:57Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I picked out dolphins and whales because they are large creatures, and in my layman’s opinion, a massive drop in their numbers in the North Pacific would likely be noticed. If there is a “huge problem” with fish being poisoned by eating plastic over zooplankton, it ought to have a big effect on the dolphins that feed on the fish. (At least according to the “catastrophe” video that was linked earlier.) A similar argument would apply to whales – either direct poisoning by consuming plastic, or indirect effects caused by an absence of fish or the presence of poisonous fish). [/QUOTE] Oh? What about developmental effects? Genetic effects? Hormonal effects? Lots of plastics degrade into hormonally active chemicals which may not show their effects by direct poisoning, but which nevertheless have an impact on reproduction and survivability. These too are well documented. Now whether any specific effects have been characterized in this particular island of pollution, I don’t know. But it’s perfectly reasonable to CLEAN THE SHIT UP, based on what we already know about what plastic pollution does in an aquatic environment. Jesus. This isn’t that difficult. You really are trolling, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/52 "2008-02-08T00:34:51Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Oh? What about developmental effects? Genetic effects? Hormonal effects? [/quote] Here’s the claim that was recently offered: > [@](#): > > Yes, it is a huge problem that fish and birds and animals mistake plastic for food, because **it kills them.** (my bolding) If that’s true, there ought to have been a “huge” impact on whale and dolphin populations in the North Pacific. > [@](#): > > Lots of plastics degrade into hormonally active chemicals which may not show their effects by direct poisoning, but which nevertheless have an impact on reproduction and survivability. A “huge” problem with reproduction and survivability also should have had a “huge” impact on whale and dolphin populations. > [@](#): > > But it’s perfectly reasonable to CLEAN THE SHIT UP, To me, that would depend on how much money it would cost to “clean the shit up” and what benefit would result. > [@](#): > > Jesus. This isn’t that difficult. Actually, to paraphrase Heinlein, critical thinking is anything but common. > [@](#): > > You really are trolling, aren’t you? Nope, I just felt like calling BS on a wildly exaggerated claim. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/53 "2008-02-08T00:38:22Z")
So here’s what may be a stupid question: knowing it’s there, how do you clean up a mass of garbage the size of a country? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/54 "2008-02-08T02:58:37Z")
Here’s another factor - whales and dolphins might not be as heavily affected because they tend to stick to coastlines. I don’t think it’s even a point worthy of discussion as to whether that much garbage is affecting the species that are trying to live there. How do you clean it up? Make cruise ships come out of every cruise with more garbage than they made. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/55 "2008-02-08T03:05:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] So here’s what may be a stupid question: knowing it’s there, how do you clean up a mass of garbage the size of a country? [/QUOTE] Well, getting the big bits out with nets is a start, but what’s really scary are the teensy particles that used be part of a larger chunk–I can’t for the life of me figure out how to seine those out of the water. Huge floating platforms with micron filtration pumps? At least if we get the larger pieces out there’ll be fewer misshapen turtles and dead birds crammed as full of tampon applicators as a Thanksgiving turkey is of the more conventional sort of stuffing. There’ll also be less breakdown into the smaller bits–but when you consider that plastic will keep breaking down to the molecular level… Yeesh, what a mess! Maybe we can pay those unemployed Japanese whalers a bounty to pick up the trash! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/56 "2008-02-08T06:48:51Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] If that’s true, there ought to have been a “huge” impact on whale and dolphin populations in the North Pacific. A “huge” problem with reproduction and survivability also should have had a “huge” impact on whale and dolphin populations. [/QUOTE] Interesting that you expect people to answer your question as if it were a logical one. It seems to me that you’re the one who needs to demonstrate that the question itself, and the assumption underlying it (that fish deaths caused by garbage would lead to loss of whale and dolphin population), are valid. You have yet to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/57 "2008-02-08T10:13:08Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] Interesting that you expect people to answer your question as if it were a logical one. It seems to me that you’re the one who needs to demonstrate that the question itself, and the assumption underlying it (that fish deaths caused by garbage would lead to loss of whale and dolphin population), are valid. You have yet to do so. [/QUOTE] And why should we have to wait for whales and dolphins to decline before doing something about it? Wouldn’t it be better to take care of it _before_ that happens? ---
**Author:** ![Carson\_O\_Genic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Carson\_O\_Genic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carson_O_Genic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/58 "2008-02-08T11:04:32Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Well, let’s see. Today is garbage day in my town, which means I have ohhh, let’s say 10kg of garbage in the driveway, waiting to be picked up. To be generous, let’s assume that at any given moment, there’s an average of about 2kg of garbage on my land. There are about 100 million households in the United States. Assuming they are similar to mine, that’s about 200 million kilograms of garbage. Over 10 million square kilometers, that’s 20 kg/km^2, or 4 times the concentration cited above. A rubbish dump the size of the United States? [/QUOTE] ``` Since you're being generous,I wannabe to.I'll take the rowboat out there this weekend,bail that stuff up and we can put it in your trash collection,or your back yard if ,oh say, your math is a bit off.That should get these whiners to STFU. ``` ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/59 "2008-02-08T13:11:20Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] Interesting that you expect people to answer your question as if it were a logical one. It seems to me that you’re the one who needs to demonstrate that the question itself, and the assumption underlying it (that fish deaths caused by garbage would lead to loss of whale and dolphin population), are valid. You have yet to do so. [/QUOTE] I’m just a layman, but it seems to me that if the dolphins’ food source was being poisoned and killed in “huge” numbers on a large scale, it ought to have a significant impact on the dolphin population. That’s certainly what was implied in the scare video posted earlier. Or do you think that the video is misleading? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657/60 "2008-02-08T13:27:41Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] And why should we have to wait for whales and dolphins to decline before doing something about it? Wouldn’t it be better to take care of it _before_ that happens? [/QUOTE] Sure, but before we go spending lots of money, we need to be reasonably confident that there really is a problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fuck-more-garbage-than-you-can-possibly-fucking-imagine/436657.md?page=4)