# Jesus Fucking Christ. A NJ toll collector can earn $31.58 an hour?!?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 24, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412 "2011-02-24T03:04:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/181 "2011-02-24T22:26:49Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > Labor cost in a chain restaurant is below 30% > > A Big Mac in the United States is $3.73. > 30% of $3.73 is $1.119 > Double that figure is 2.238 > Subtract 1.119 from 3.73 then add 2.238 > Doubling the cost of labor yields a retail price of $4.849 > > Would you like to borrow a calculator? Not according to Darden restaurants. > [@](#): > > Total costs and expenses from continuing operations were $6.57 billion in fiscal 2010… > Restaurant labor costs increased …to $2.35 billion in fiscal 2010 so no, you’re right. it’s more like 36% keep in mind, their servers are paid under minimum wage, to boot. oh, and i really appreciate how you assume constant revenues in the face of a 30% more expensive burger. ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/182 "2011-02-24T22:34:41Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > the money to pay the workers is either going to come from the business’ profit, or the customers. which do you think? From the customers, primarily. You think Henry Ford bankrupted the country when he started paying laborers enough to actually afford the product they were building? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/183 "2011-02-24T22:35:32Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > From the customers, primarily. You think Henry Ford bankrupted the country when he started paying laborers enough to actually afford the product they were building? and where are the customers getting the money to pay for these increased costs? i mean the ones who weren’t fortunate enough to land that awesome job flippin burgers or refilling water pitchers. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/184 "2011-02-24T22:41:54Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > How many people are you willing to have working full time that cannot provide for their basic needs? Half of all households seem about right to you? I’m for letting the free market alone to do it’s job creating wealth and moving all of us to spend in the most efficient way possible, and then giving welfare to people that need help meeting their basic needs. Artificial minimum wages are wildly inefficient and ineffective welfare systems. If we decide that nobody should make less than X dollars a year, put in a negative income tax to make it happen. Boom, done. ---
**Author:** ![CPomeroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed8c4c/32.png) [@CPomeroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CPomeroy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/185 "2011-02-24T22:49:00Z")
It seems like something that is getting lost in the discussion of McDonald’s workers is that it is unlikely that they would raise wages significantly in a vacuum. In other words if burger flippers were suddenly making $30/hr, than likely the folks that produce the raw materials and supplies, deliver goods, haul waste, generate electricity, etc. would also all be getting raises, so not just the direct labor cost would go up; all of their other expenses would increase as well. With respect to the toll collectors, I guess my beef is that someone is making that kind of money when it seems like anyone could walk in off the street and do that job with about an hour of orientation. As a former McDs burger flipper, we had to have a fair amount of training before we were reasonably competent. All for minimum wage of course. This was still better than my previous job at an amusement park that only had to pay the state minimum wage because it was seasonal work. ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/186 "2011-02-24T22:50:17Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I’m for letting the free market alone to do it’s job creating wealth and moving all of us to spend in the most efficient way possible, and then giving welfare to people that need help meeting their basic needs. Artificial minimum wages are wildly inefficient and ineffective welfare systems. > > If we decide that nobody should make less than X dollars a year, put in a negative income tax to make it happen. Boom, done. So in other words, you believe in just straight up income redistribution? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/187 "2011-02-24T22:51:47Z")
> [@CPomeroy](#): > > It seems like something that is getting lost in the discussion of McDonald’s workers is that it is unlikely that they would raise wages significantly in a vacuum. In other words if burger flippers were suddenly making $30/hr, than likely the folks that produce the raw materials and supplies, deliver goods, haul waste, generate electricity, etc. would also all be getting raises, so not just the direct labor cost would go up; all of their other expenses would increase as well. hopefully we would’ve gotten to that point. thanks for cutting through all the bullshit though! > [@](#): > > With respect to the toll collectors, I guess my beef is that someone is making that kind of money when it seems like anyone could walk in off the street and do that job with about an hour of orientation. As a former McDs burger flipper, we had to have a fair amount of training before we were reasonably competent. All for minimum wage of course. This was still better than my previous job at an amusement park that only had to pay the state minimum wage because it was seasonal work. but it’s their **career**. they deserve more because of it! ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/188 "2011-02-24T22:53:34Z")
> [@CPomeroy](#): > > …so not just the direct labor cost would go up; all of their other expenses would increase as well. Many of their other expenses would increase but not in a 1:1 ratio. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/189 "2011-02-24T22:59:50Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > Many of their other expenses would increase but not in a 1:1 ratio. I don’t think anyone said that it would. ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/190 "2011-02-24T23:06:32Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I don’t think anyone said that it would. Actually, you did, just not terribly eloquently. > [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > let’s put it this way: say everyone, starting tomorrow, gets a 0 added to their paycheck. do you think you’ll suddenly be 10 times richer, or do you think that suddenly everything will also cost 10 times as much? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/191 "2011-02-24T23:08:14Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > Actually, you did, just not terribly eloquently. sweeping generalization stated to make a point (the sentence directly above which you omitted). tsk tsk, you can do better. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/192 "2011-02-24T23:14:24Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > Slightly more than 11,000 Euros a month, if my calculations are correct. That’s 40 hours a week of standing there, getting cursed at, breathing in car exhaust. Your calculations are not correct. ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/193 "2011-02-24T23:19:37Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > sweeping generalization stated to make a point (the sentence directly above which you omitted). tsk tsk, you can do better. Thanks, I’ll try to do better! > [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > it was answered. if you just wholesale increase everyone’s pay by a multiplier, prices will catch up. Here you are saying there is a relationship, the exact ratio is not mentioned. > [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > let’s put it this way: say everyone, starting tomorrow, gets a 0 added to their paycheck. do you think you’ll suddenly be 10 times richer, or do you think that suddenly everything will also cost 10 times as much? Parsing for meaning; 10 times richer : 10 times as much. I think that’s 1:1, can I borrow your calculator? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/194 "2011-02-24T23:21:18Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > So in other words, you believe in just straight up income redistribution? It’s not my first choice for how I’d organize my ideal society (that would be an absolute monarchy, with all men serfs beneath me), but a negative income tax would be far better than our current dog’s-breakfast system of 186 different kinds of welfare and tax incentives, and far, FAR better than living wage laws. It’s a pretty common idea among libertarians. You can read about [the socialist](http://www.city-journal.org/2011/21_1_income-tax.html)who invented it here. ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/195 "2011-02-24T23:21:48Z")
Rumor, you are fighting a brave fight my friend and I congratulate you for it. In Massachusetts there were actually people who ran a business that promised to help you get a job working a tollboth. My roommate attempted to get hired with no success. For decades there have been people promising to get you the secret to getting hired by the Post Office. These are just a few hints that these jobs overpay in both salary and benefits. We live in times where we can’t fund mental health care, social program, highways and many other worthy and necessary endeavors. Part of that shortfall comes from things like paying toll takers $60k a year. I don’t think any one actually believes that if the job was private sector that people wouldn’t be lining up to take $15 an hour and be thrilled about it. It is insane to spend limited dollars to benefit a few unskilled workers. Whether liberal or conservative it is just a terrible waste of limited dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/196 "2011-02-24T23:40:25Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > Here you are saying there is a relationship, the exact ratio is not mentioned. yes, because there is a relationship. and because i don’t know what the exact ratio is > [@](#): > > Parsing for meaning; 10 times richer : 10 times as much. I think that’s 1:1, can I borrow your calculator? as contrasted. to the opposite end of that statement, which is that there would be no effect on the price levels - i.e. your wealth would jump up 10 times and be done at that. you sure have a thing for calculators, though. try removing the one stuck up your ass and taking a whiff. it smells better than your grande plan to mandate that no-skill workers deserve anything more than what the market will bear. ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/197 "2011-02-24T23:45:15Z")
> [@furt](#): > > It’s not my first choice for how I’d organize my ideal society (that would be an absolute monarchy, with all men serfs beneath me), but a negative income tax would be far better than our current dog’s-breakfast system of 186 different kinds of welfare and tax incentives, and far, FAR better than living wage laws. So you just want to simplify and exclusively use and expand the negative income tax that we currently use (Earned Income Tax Credit). What makes you think that would be better than Living Wage laws? > [@furt](#): > > It’s a pretty common idea among libertarians. You can read about [the socialist](http://www.city-journal.org/2011/21_1_income-tax.html)who invented it here. Hayek begat Friedman who begat Greenspan who begat the current financial crisis. I like my Austrian Economic Thought Experiments at home with a little kush and a drop of a nice single malt, but hey, if you want to do it in public, go ahead. You have a bunch of thirteen sided dice at home, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/198 "2011-02-24T23:48:02Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > …your grande plan to mandate that no-skill workers deserve anything more than what the market will bear. Even Adam Smith knew that sometimes the Invisible Hand needed a little guidance. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/199 "2011-02-25T00:03:25Z")
I don’t understand why some begrudge those making a good wage for what is arguably a terrible job. I spent 24 years of my life in school so I wouldn’t have to take a job like that, and am grateful there are people who are willing to. I make a lot more than a toll taker, so perhaps it’s easier for me to be rational about it than someone with an advanced degree whose salary is not on par with one. Who knows? I do know that toll takers have no status, little comfort, are directly exposed to extreme temperatures, the elements, and possible carcinogens from automobile exhaust for 6 to 8 hours of every work day, in addition to having to deal with a rarely-abating queue of customers, some of whom are rude, obnoxious, and verbally abusive. It’s obviously not a difficult job to perform, nor does it require any special skill, but I wouldn’t consider it a good job by any means. I say if they, or their union reps (I don’t know if there’s a toll taker’s union) are able to negotiate a $50K to $60K salary, more power to them. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412/200 "2011-02-25T01:40:49Z")
> [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](#): > > So you just want to simplify and exclusively use and expand the negative income tax that we currently use (Earned Income Tax Credit). What makes you think that would be better than Living Wage laws? You can follow the link and learn … > [@](#): > > Hayek begat Friedman who begat Greenspan who begat the current financial crisis. or you can choose to live by rigid ideology, and see a world of good guys and bad guys instead of assessing ideas on their own merits. I’ll say good night and leave you to decide, but … > [@](#): > > You have a bunch of thirteen sided dice at home, don’t you? if all you have are insults, at least try to make them witty, eh? And, no, my mom doesn’t allow D&D in her basement. Ciao. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-fucking-christ-a-nj-toll-collector-can-earn-31-58-an-hour/572412.md?page=11)