# Jesus gave up a weekend for our sins **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 9, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244 "2004-04-09T23:10:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/161 "2017-04-17T23:58:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Nothing is “particularly challenging” when you operate on faith. Yeah, whatever. Mark is basically saying salvation is through Jesus because of who and what he was. Matthew is saying salvation is through Jesus because he was the fulfillment of the Law and was foretold by the Prophets. Luke is saying salvation is through Jesus because he embodies God’s compassion for all. John is saying salvation is through Jesus because of his mystical unity with the Father. Paul is saying salvation is through Jesus because of a bunch of overly complicated theological stuff. And someone with no faith at all, but with familiarity with the Scriptures, could have said the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/162 "2017-04-18T00:13:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, whatever. Mark is basically saying salvation is through Jesus because of who and what he was. Matthew is saying salvation is through Jesus because he was the fulfillment of the Law and was foretold by the Prophets. Luke is saying salvation is through Jesus because he embodies God’s compassion for all. John is saying salvation is through Jesus because of his mystical unity with the Father. Paul is saying salvation is through Jesus because of a bunch of overly complicated theological stuff. And someone with no faith at all, but with familiarity with the Scriptures, could have said the same thing. Leaving Paul aside (he’s not a gospel writer), what Mark, Luke and John say is meaningless verbiage, unless you have faith that it actually means something. They are, at best, being tautological. Jesus is salvation because he is. And Matthew is demonstrably wrong, since Jesus did not fulfill the Law as foretold by the Prophets. It really takes faith to believe something that is demonstrably wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/163 "2017-04-18T00:32:51Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”(Luke 23:43) . . . Today? Shouldn’t it have been the day after tomorrow? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/164 "2017-04-18T04:24:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I only have a conceptual problem with someone who says _“Oh, hey, I agree with everything in your holy book, which is also my holy book; also, I worship God Junior – who is the son of God Senior, and doesn’t know everything his dad knows, and has conversations with the big guy and wills different things than his father does.”_ > > So if you could relay a link to that argument, I’d sure appreciate it. Welcome to Cafeteria Christianity. --or-- welcome to trying to muddle through, theologically. Y’all are stuck worshipping a solid rat bastard. Xtians can pretend he has a nice side. - > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Well, most of the other long weekends involve bbq’s and some sort of fireworks. Can you blame him for not wanting to miss out on those? Amen, given how shitty Friday was. I hate Fridays. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > If he wants to know what it’s like to suffer, he could have come back as my cousin Cathy, who lived with polio for forty years-she grew up in pain, lived through more pain, and died in even more pain. Jesus whined after one bad night(great faith, there), but Cathy had nothing but kind words right up to the end. Or my wife, who has been jerked around medically for so long she wants to go to hospice and stop dialysis. She correctly asked if I would put a dog through this. No, I merely like dogs. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > With the exception of a few of the epistles that are believed to have been written in the second century, the “many different times” were all within a few decades of each other. Let’s not exaggerate with our spin. Sure, the gospels have different emphases, but I think it’s a losing argument to suggest that their areas of disagreement aren’t far outweighed by their areas of concurrence.No, actually, it’s not particularly challenging. God damn it all, I hate when non-believers pull that shit and act so superior. Maybe he wasn’t God, but Jesus has as much historiocity as most anybody 2000 years ago. IE: not much, but enough for us to assume he was probably real. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/165 "2017-04-18T08:41:47Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”(Luke 23:43) . Jehovah’s Witnessed New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures moves the comma, so the quote reads “Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” > [@Trinopus](#): > > Today? Shouldn’t it have been the day after tomorrow? Was it the Jehova’s that came up with the idea that the comma is wrong in that quote? “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/166 "2017-04-18T09:03:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Leaving Paul aside (he’s not a gospel writer), what Mark, Luke and John say is meaningless verbiage, unless you have faith that it actually means something. **John** , you’ve lost me here. The authors’ meaning doesn’t change based on whether they’re right or wrong, whether they’ve put their faith in something real or just another illusion dressed up as a religion. They mean what they mean. Remember, we’re discussing **Czarcasm** ’s assertion in post #157 that > [@](#): > > It is difficult enough to get what the point is from any individual gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/167 "2017-04-18T15:26:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > With the exception of a few of the epistles that are believed to have been written in the second century, the “many different times” were all within a few decades of each other. Let’s not exaggerate with our spin. Sure, the gospels have different emphases, but I think it’s a losing argument to suggest that their areas of disagreement aren’t far outweighed by their areas of concurrence.No, actually, it’s not particularly challenging. I would dispute the notion that concurrences far outweigh disagreements when it comes to the gospels…and you’ve neglected to mention that some of these “concurrences” are due to either copying or use of the same sources. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/168 "2017-04-18T16:08:02Z")
How do we know God even felt the pain of crucifixion? He could have taken it away by his powers, and faked it, being God and all. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/169 "2017-04-18T16:19:36Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How do we know God even felt the pain of crucifixion? He could have taken it away by his powers, and faked it, being God and all. Or, Jesus wasn’t god, or in any way related. Or, god wasn’t the least bit interested in that event, anymore than any other. Or, no god; It’s just a story. Point being, people believe what they want to believe. Evidence is not required in matters of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/170 "2017-04-18T16:37:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Or, Jesus wasn’t god, or in any way related. > > Or, god wasn’t the least bit interested in that event, anymore than any other. > > Or, no god; It’s just a story. > Point being, people believe what they want to believe. Evidence is not required in matters of faith. As long as they keep insisting that evidence is there(which they certainly do), such evidence that they bring forth is open to examination…as is any counter-evidence. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/171 "2017-04-18T17:32:18Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How do we know God even felt the pain of crucifixion? He could have taken it away by his powers, and faked it, being God and all. It’s better if Christ didn’t feel pain, which is very possible and somewhat supportable. Gifts of the Holy Spirit such as long suffering ( not actually suffering in situations that would cause it), and also perhaps Stephan taking by the Lord and not having to suffer the stoning ordered by Saul (aka Paul the Apostle) both speaks to the great mercy of God, and the protection God offers everyone who is willing to walk that path, even spared from the pain of death. Jesus would be required by scripture to walk that path by faith and not knowing everything (several times in the bible Jesus does not know things). As for the pain of God the Father for all the useless things humans do read Ecclesiastes. Also another interpretation of Jesus get out of suffering free card in the Gospel of Peter (non-canon). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/172 "2017-04-18T17:36:14Z")
That’s what I love most about religious evidence: Everything is evidence _for_. Nothing is evidence _against_. Feeling pain=evidence for. Not feeling pain=evidence for. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/173 "2017-04-18T18:17:29Z")
If Jesus is God, how can he not know things. Isn’t God all knowing, all powerful, yada, yada, yada. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/174 "2017-04-18T18:26:28Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It’s better if Christ didn’t feel pain, which is very possible and somewhat supportable. Well, yeah; the text says he drank something from that sponge, and then slumped over as if he’d been dosed with some really powerful drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/175 "2017-04-18T18:27:17Z")
God is affected by drugs? How is that possible? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/176 "2017-04-18T18:28:20Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If Jesus is God, how can he not know things. Isn’t God all knowing, all powerful, yada, yada, yada. Jesus is the son of the Father, as such trust is part of the equation of God. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/177 "2017-04-18T18:30:11Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, yeah; the text says he drank something from that sponge, and then slumped over as if he’d been dosed with some really powerful drugs. Don’t know of the ‘slumped over’ account, but IIRC he refused it and did not drink it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/178 "2017-04-18T18:39:40Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Don’t know of the ‘slumped over’ account, but IIRC he refused it and did not drink it. Well, my copy is right here, and right at John 19 there’s a bit where he saith “I thirst,” and folks put the sponge soaked in stuff up to his mouth. _“When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”_ So, do you RC about him refusing it and not drinking it? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/179 "2017-04-18T19:06:41Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, my copy is right here, and right at John 19 there’s a bit where he saith “I thirst,” and folks put the sponge soaked in stuff up to his mouth. _“When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”_ So, do you RC about him refusing it and not drinking it? We were always taught that the vinigar was just another taunt from the Romans but it probably wasn’t plain vinigar. it was more likely posca, water mixed with slightly off wine. The stuff the soldiers drank themselves. The soldier was being kind. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244/180 "2017-04-19T00:05:21Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If Jesus is God, how can he not know things. Isn’t God all knowing, all powerful, yada, yada, yada. Dear old Harold Camping was so desperate to explain that one, he actually claimed that “the son” in Matthew 24:36 referred to Satan, not Jesus. (I miss the poor bastard. He was actually one of the good guys among Biblical literalists.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-gave-up-a-weekend-for-our-sins/239244.md?page=10)