# Jesus is God. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152 "2012-10-08T23:37:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/41 "2012-10-09T00:29:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because things that don’t exist can’t exert effort. > > You’re struggling now. > > Yes. And spending is good. But your boss doesn’t take money from you if you do a bad job. He just doesn’t pay you. > > Now your boss is God. He pays you in Heaven Bucks™. If you do a good job, you get enough Heaven Bucks™ to get into Heaven. If you do a bad job, you get no HBs and can’t afford to get into Heaven. You don’t need him to send you to the Afterlife Debtor’s Prison (Hell). > > The only reason for Hell is either God isn’t powerful enough to create a universe without it, or He’s evil and likes torturing people needlessly. You still get Heaven Pennies™ in hell. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/42 "2012-10-09T00:32:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Then how did I figure it out? 😛 There is a choice and God knows what will be chosen, but there is no possibility that we could know what will be chosen. Does that mean there was no choice to be made? For us, there was a choice. It’s only an illusion from God’s perspective. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/43 "2012-10-09T00:35:32Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I personally think our morals, behavior and purpose in life stem from evolution, and not from religion. So my perspective on these things is going to be different. Having said that, people do crave security over freedom in accordance with things like Maslow’s hierarchy or terror management theory. Present people with harm and they crave authority and conformity to keep them safe. At our core, we do crave safety over security despite what Ben Franklin said. > > Being obedient to God would be less of a hell than the christian hell. > > And again, Zoroastrians believe in free will just like Christians, but their hell only lasts 3 days instead of eternity. You don’t need eternity in hell to have freedom. How could there be an eternal heaven without an eternal hell? The Christian hell? Where is that described in the Bible? Hell has it’s delight, they just aren’t as nice as the heavenly ones. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/44 "2012-10-09T00:35:33Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > There is a choice and God knows what will be chosen, but there is no possibility that we could know what will be chosen. Does that mean there was no choice to be made? Yes. That’s what “illusion” means. You said something about your god loving freedom, but his existence means the concept is bullshit and he might be the only being that experiences it. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/45 "2012-10-09T00:36:27Z")
If the fear of punishment is the only thing that keeps people ‘free’ - that’s not really freedom, now is it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/46 "2012-10-09T00:38:28Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > How do you experience nothing? Do you actually think you can catch us out with _word games?_ Fine. Consider where you are sitting right now-now tell be exactly what it is like in my living room. Now take that total lack of awareness and knowledge you have about my living room and expand it to include everything else in the universe, _including yourself_, and there you go. By the way-Jesus isn’t God. If Jesus was God don’t you think his mommy would have named him oh, I don’t know…_God_? ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/47 "2012-10-09T00:39:18Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because things that don’t exist can’t exert effort. > > You’re struggling now. > > Yes. And spending is good. But your boss doesn’t take money from you if you do a bad job. He just doesn’t pay you. > > Now your boss is God. He pays you in Heaven Bucks™. If you do a good job, you get enough Heaven Bucks™ to get into Heaven. If you do a bad job, you get no HBs and can’t afford to get into Heaven. You don’t need him to send you to the Afterlife Debtor’s Prison (Hell). > > The only reason for Hell is either God isn’t powerful enough to create a universe without it, or He’s evil and likes torturing people needlessly. Hell is still where the people in it want to be. They feel at home there because they are in like company. They feel smothered in the atmosphere of heaven because there is too much goodwill floating around. Hellish people don’t have good will and it makes them feel bad to be around it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/48 "2012-10-09T00:39:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I thought Clapton was God? Of course he was. That’s why George Harrison used to hang around with him. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/49 "2012-10-09T00:40:11Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > How could there be an eternal heaven without an eternal hell? For someone with empathy, how could there be a Heaven with a Hell? Without your god just brainwashing everyone into being happy idiots, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/50 "2012-10-09T00:40:20Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > How could there be an eternal heaven without an eternal hell? > > The Christian hell? Where is that described in the Bible? > > Hell has it’s delight, they just aren’t as nice as the heavenly ones. I have to admit that your concept of Heaven and Hell are just as valid as your concept of God. Who am I to argue with your imagination? ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/51 "2012-10-09T00:41:05Z")
> [@simster](#): > > If the fear of punishment is the only thing that keeps people ‘free’ - that’s not really freedom, now is it? Hell isn’t a punishment. It’s a home for people who like to do harm to others. They are allowed to leave, they just don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/52 "2012-10-09T00:41:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > By the way-Jesus isn’t God. If Jesus was God don’t you think his mommy would have named him oh, I don’t know…_God_? She did! Jesus God Ramirez. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/53 "2012-10-09T00:42:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I have to admit that your concept of Heaven and Hell are just as valid as your concept of God. > Who am I to argue with your imagination? I’m actually getting this stuff from the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. I can’t take credit. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/54 "2012-10-09T00:42:56Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > Hell isn’t a punishment. It’s a home for people who like to do harm to others. They are allowed to leave, they just don’t want to. Interesting idea, but you’re making this up as you go, right? > [@RedRain](#): > > I’m actually getting this stuff from the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. I can’t take credit. Ooh, one of the early spiritualist frauds! That’s at least a little unique compare to what we usually get around here. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/55 "2012-10-09T00:43:06Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > How could there be an eternal heaven without an eternal hell? Easily. I showed that above. > [@](#): > > The Christian hell? Where is that described in the Bible? Most Christian sects believe in a Hell. Most have biblical justification for it. They vary, because Christianity is made up based on primitive writings. > [@](#): > > Hell has it’s delight, they just aren’t as nice as the heavenly ones. So when someone gets an _old fashioned_ in Hell, the girl doesn’t spit on her hand? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/56 "2012-10-09T00:43:17Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > God does not get angry. He does not frown on us or punish us. The only punishment that we receive is from ourselves. Our wicked ways punish us. That’s not what the Old Testament says. > [@](#): > > God is always looking down on us with love. He is always smiling at us. 🙂 Both my parents died of cancers after months of suffering. God had damn well better NOT have been looking down on that and smiling.\* \*it’s OK, **RedRain** , it’s just rhetoric. I don’t think for a minute that the mythical being you describe actually exists. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/57 "2012-10-09T00:43:28Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > Hell is still where the people in it want to be. They feel at home there because they are in like company. They feel smothered in the atmosphere of heaven because there is too much goodwill floating around. Hellish people don’t have good will and it makes them feel bad to be around it. Do you make this stuff up as you go along, or is there a particular Christian sect you follow? I mean, if this is just some structureless idea without any internal logic to it and no cites(outside of your imagination), I can’t see wasting any time listening to you. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/58 "2012-10-09T00:46:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you make this stuff up as you go along, or is there a particular Christian sect you follow? I mean, if this is just some structureless idea without any internal logic to it and no cites(outside of your imagination), I can’t see wasting any time listening to you. Emanuel Swedenborg. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/59 "2012-10-09T00:47:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Interesting idea, but you’re making this up as you go, right? > > Ooh, one of the early spiritualist frauds! That’s at least a little unique compare to what we usually get around here. Isn’t he interesting though? Scientist turned theologian? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/60 "2012-10-09T00:47:36Z")
The OP is clearly mistaken. Ivanova is God. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152.md?page=4)