# Jesus is God. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152 "2012-10-08T23:37:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/61 "2012-10-09T00:48:04Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > I’m actually getting this stuff from the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. I can’t take credit. “Credit” is the absolute last word that comes to mind when it comes to _that_ crackpot. Do you actually believe that the Last Judgement occurred in 1757? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/62 "2012-10-09T00:49:20Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > God values freedom above all things because He knows that we can’t be happy without it. He must allow for hell so that we can be free. I don’t see that making Him a twat. I see that as mercy. > > We couldn’t be happy without freedom. Do you not agree? The existence of hell = freedom. Freedom = happiness. Therefore, hell = happiness. Got it! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/63 "2012-10-09T00:49:48Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > Isn’t he interesting though? Scientist turned theologian? Interesting, sure. But still completely full of it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/64 "2012-10-09T00:49:52Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > Isn’t he interesting though? Scientist turned theologian? Scientist turned bullgoose loony is more like it. What the hell did you do, purposefully seek out the craziest religionist you could find? ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/65 "2012-10-09T00:50:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Scientist turned bullgoose loony is more like it. What the hell did you do, purposefully seek out the craziest religionist you could find? I was raised in it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/66 "2012-10-09T00:51:42Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > I was raised in it. 😃 I am so sorry for you. Sincerely. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/67 "2012-10-09T00:52:42Z")
THE LORD CASTS NO ONE INTO HELL; THE SPIRIT CASTS HIMSELF DOWN. An opinion has prevailed with some that God turns away His face from man, casts man away from Himself, and casts him into hell, and is angry with him on account of his evil; and some believe also that God punishes man and does evil to him. In this opinion they establish themselves by the sense of the letter of the Word, where such things are declared, not knowing that the spiritual sense of the Word, by which the sense of the letter is made clear, is wholly different; and consequently that the genuine doctrine of the church, which is from the spiritual sense of the Word, teaches otherwise, namely, that God never turns away His face from man, and never casts man away from Himself, that He casts no one into hell and is angry with no one. (Heaven and Hell #545, Emanuel Swedenborg) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/68 "2012-10-09T00:53:55Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > The existence of hell = freedom. Freedom = happiness. Therefore, hell = happiness. Got it! Plus, what is freedom if lack of oppression? Heaven = oppression. Therefore heaven != freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/69 "2012-10-09T00:54:23Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > THE LORD CASTS NO ONE INTO HELL; THE SPIRIT CASTS HIMSELF DOWN. > An opinion has prevailed with some that God turns away His face from man, casts man away from Himself, and casts him into hell, and is angry with him on account of his evil; and some believe also that God punishes man and does evil to him. In this opinion they establish themselves by the sense of the letter of the Word, where such things are declared, not knowing that the spiritual sense of the Word, by which the sense of the letter is made clear, is wholly different; and consequently that the genuine doctrine of the church, which is from the spiritual sense of the Word, teaches otherwise, namely, that God never turns away His face from man, and never casts man away from Himself, that He casts no one into hell and is angry with no one. (Heaven and Hell #545, Emanuel Swedenborg) Do you believe that the Second Coming occurred back in the 1700’s? ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/70 "2012-10-09T00:55:39Z")
He who wills and loves evil in the world wills and loves the same evil in the other life, but he no longer suffers himself to be withdrawn from it. If, therefore, a man is in evil he is tied to hell, and in respect to his spirit is actually there, and after death desires nothing so much as to be where his evil is; consequently it is man who casts himself into hell after death, and not the Lord. (Heaven and Hell #547, Emanuel Swedenborg) ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/71 "2012-10-09T00:55:46Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > We couldn’t be happy without freedom. Do you not agree? So you’re limiting god’s omnipotence? He should be able to make any situation he wants. > [@RedRain](#): > > Much of the Bible is allegorical and not to be taken literally. How 'bout “Most” or “All” instead of “Much”. > [@RedRain](#): > > I was raised in it. 😃 I’m so sorry. I hope you’re a smart 13 year old, and soon you’ll begin to question this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/72 "2012-10-09T00:56:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you believe that the Second Coming occurred back in the 1700’s? Yes. Why not? It’s just as crazy as thinking it has yet to happen with God appearing in the sky. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/73 "2012-10-09T01:00:02Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > Meaning most of the Old Testament. If you can so easily dismiss the Old Testament, I can just as easily hand wave away the New Testament. Jesus is not god. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/74 "2012-10-09T01:02:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If you can so easily dismiss the Old Testament, I can just as easily hand wave away the New Testament. Jesus is not god. But I have a crazy 18th century scientist and his 30 plus volumes of theological works to back me up. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/75 "2012-10-09T01:03:06Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > Yes. Why not? It’s just as crazy as thinking it has yet to happen with God appearing in the sky. Something being just as crazy as something else is not a sound reason to believe in _anything_. Have you ever considered dropping the crazy belief angle entirely? ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/76 "2012-10-09T01:04:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Something being just as crazy as something else is not a sound reason to believe in _anything_. Have you ever considered dropping the crazy belief angle entirely? I believe his angle is superior to any other Christian angle. I don’t actually believe it’s crazy. I’m just playing along. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/77 "2012-10-09T01:05:04Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > But I have a crazy 18th century scientist and his 30 plus volumes of theological works to back me up. 30 plus volumes of religionist mental masturbation is nothing anybody needs to read, let alone take pride in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/78 "2012-10-09T01:06:56Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > I believe his angle is superior to any other Christian angle. I don’t actually believe it’s crazy. I’m just playing along. Not appreciated by me. If you don’t have the guts to be sincere, I don’t have the time to waste talking to you. Do you care to try again? ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/79 "2012-10-09T01:07:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 30 plus volumes of religionist mental masturbation is nothing anybody needs to read, let alone take pride in doing so. Sure it is. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/80 "2012-10-09T01:08:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not appreciated by me. If you don’t have the guts to be sincere, I don’t have the time to waste talking to you. Do you care to try again? I don’t really want to be backed into a false corner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152.md?page=5)