# Jesus is God. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152 "2012-10-08T23:37:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/161 "2012-10-09T03:30:07Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > But you don’t see that first I assume there is a world more real than this one, that governs this one. The only reason I take these actions in this world is because of that world. I first assume that that world is real. I have no reason to assume this world is real before I assume that that one is. You assume your unevidenced Überworld and live in this world. I live in this world and leave the unevidenced on the floor to be swept away with other ideas that have nothing behind them. There is nothing you can do in your other world that can influence me in this one. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/162 "2012-10-09T03:32:03Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > This discussion is quickly turning disappointing. I’d say you were about 146 posts late. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/163 "2012-10-09T03:32:11Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Then you’re making extra assumptions that are unneccessary. Rule zero of logic is Occam’s Razor – if it doesn’t need to be, then don’t assume it is. It is not **necessary** for there to be a higher order reality, so until evidence comes up that forces it to be the best fitting explanation, it is probably false. > > That said, there **are** some very well founded theories that we’re a simulation of a simulation of a simulation [etc…], and some say that statistically it’s probably true, but again, it’s an academic objection, it doesn’t really have any bearing on how the world around you acts. You’re assuming the rules of logic apply before you assume anything. They don’t. We don’t agree on the rules of logic. They are based on assumptions that I don’t make. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/164 "2012-10-09T03:32:37Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > That’s not the point of this thread. If Jesus is God, then you should be able to show us the God that Jesus is supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/165 "2012-10-09T03:33:16Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > That’s not the point of this thread. You’re surprised ‘Jesus is God’ wasn’t enough to convince us? ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/166 "2012-10-09T03:33:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You assume your unevidenced Überworld and live in this world. I live in this world and leave the unevidenced on the floor to be swept away with other ideas that have nothing behind them. There is nothing you can do in your other world that can influence me in this one. This world is unevidenced. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/167 "2012-10-09T03:33:46Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > You’re assuming the rules of logic apply before you assume anything. They don’t. We don’t agree on the rules of logic. They are based on assumptions that I don’t make. What rules(if any) _do_ you follow? ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/168 "2012-10-09T03:34:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If Jesus is God, then you should be able to show us the God that Jesus is supposed to be. God set it up so He can’t be shown, obviously. Or He doesn’t exist. One or the other. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/169 "2012-10-09T03:35:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What rules(if any) _do_ you follow? The ten commandments. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/170 "2012-10-09T03:37:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I’d say you were about 146 posts late. 😛 New religious members willing to subject their personal faith to cross examination is actually brave, but devolving into as Solipsist masterbation is a waste of everyones time. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/171 "2012-10-09T03:37:40Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > You’re assuming the rules of logic apply before you assume anything. They don’t. We don’t agree on the rules of logic. They are based on assumptions that I don’t make. Okay then. Genghis Khan sodomized saucy fireworks. Therefore all trucks are yellow. This implies that the alquityan tribe of north Imakayakayak turns green on the third day of sheep-skin river. Thus you are obviously incorrect – there is no higher order reality, Jesus is not god, and not all fish are physical avatars of the late Steve Jobs. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/172 "2012-10-09T03:38:38Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > New religious members willing to subject their personal faith to cross examination is actually brave, but devolving into as Solipsist masterbation is a waste of everyones time. But that’s part of my personal faith. Didn’t you read the quote I referenced concerning basic assumptions? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/173 "2012-10-09T03:39:38Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > This world is unevidenced. We have a basic problem here that grinds this conversation to a dead stop-You claim that you don’t use logic, and you claim that you don’t accept evidence. The facts that you bothered to register for this board, aren’t just hitting random letters on your keyboard, and that you have studied(and follow) the works of a learned religionist, using his studies as evidence of a greater world forces me to disbelieve both of those claims. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/174 "2012-10-09T03:39:51Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > To quote Swedenborg on the matter: > > “Anybody can recognize that the basic assumptions a person makes, even when completely false, govern him, and that all knowledge and reasoning buttress those assumptions. For countless flattering ideas occur to him to confirm him in falsities. Consequently when a person’s basic assumption is to believe nothing until he sees and understands it, he cannot possibly believe; for spiritual and heavenly things are neither visible to the eyes nor comprehensible in mental images. But the true order is for a person to become wise from the Lord, that is, from His Word. In that case everything follows as it should, and he is also enlightened in matters of reason and of fact. Indeed nobody is forbidden to acquire knowledge, since it is useful for life and gives delight. And the person in whom faith resides is in no way forbidden to think and to talk as learned people in the world do. But he does so from the premise of belief in the Lord’s Word and of confirming spiritual and heavenly truths by means of natural truths, using as far as is possible the terminology of the learned world. Consequently his premise must be the Lord, not self; the former is life, while the latter is death.” -Arcana Coelestia #129, Emanuel Swedenborg This one^ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/175 "2012-10-09T03:41:34Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > The ten commandments. 😃 Is this like before, when smiley faces indicated that you weren’t being sincere? ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/176 "2012-10-09T03:42:04Z")
I’m just taking the only philosophical stance that has any grounds for believing in a God. If we start from this world, you cannot get to God. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/177 "2012-10-09T03:42:21Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > This one^ Yeah…thats when this thread went from entertaining to suck. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/178 "2012-10-09T03:43:08Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > This one^ Put that in your own words, please. ---
**Author:** ![RedRain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@RedRain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/179 "2012-10-09T03:43:16Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Yeah…thats when this thread went from entertaining to suck. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152/180 "2012-10-09T03:44:12Z")
> [@RedRain](#): > > I’m just taking the only philosophical stance that has any grounds for believing in a God. If we start from this world, you cannot get to God. Or, if we start in this world, there is no need for God. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-is-god/637152.md?page=10)