# Jesus: Joshua **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 25, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113 "2005-07-25T21:10:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/1 "2005-07-25T21:10:24Z")
Linked to this thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=327106](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=327106) There is obviously quite some confusion as to how Jesus’ name was pronounced, and whether it was really the same name as Joshua. This lead me to question whether the names of the Appostles and Biblical writers were different from the common Anglisization, and what their correct pronounciation was at the time of Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/2 "2005-07-25T21:41:57Z")
Well, sure. The bible was written in Hebrew, mostly (or Greek, for parts of the Christian bible), and the names in the bible are Hebrew, Greek, or Latin names, which then were changed into English. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/3 "2005-07-25T21:48:49Z")
I think these are reasonably accurate. I welcome any corrections. Simon: _Simon_ (SHEE-mon) John: _Yohannan_ (Yo-HAN-non) James _Yakob_ (YAH-kob) Matthew: _Matthai_ (mah-TYE) Judas: _Yuda_ (YU-da) Phillip _Phillipos_ (FILL- i- pos) Thomas: _Toma_ (TOE-mah) Andrew: _Andareos_ (ahn-dah-RAY-os) Bartholomew: _Bar Tolomai_ (bar-TOL-lo-mye) Thaddeus: _Thaddai_ (TODD-eye) Simon Peter: (Simon the Rock) _Simon Kepha_ (SHEE-mon KAY-fah) Peter in Greek is _Petros_. Mary: _Maryam_ (MAR-ee-ahm) Mark: Roman name, _Marcus_ Luke: _Loukas_ (LOO-kahs) ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/4 "2005-07-25T21:54:13Z")
Yoda is Judas! (well nearly) Thanks **Diogenes the Cynic** that is just what I was after. Are James and Jacob anglicisations of Yakob ? What about the names Paul and Saul are they pretty much unchaged? And how about the Angels, Gabriel, Michael, et-al. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/5 "2005-07-25T21:54:20Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Judas: _Yuda_ (YU-da) Probably Yehuda…unless Yuda is some Aramaic variant of the name. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/6 "2005-07-25T22:01:47Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > What about the names Paul and Saul are they pretty much unchaged? Remember that, in the case of Hebrew and Greek, you’re dealing with transliteration, so that can complicate things. Saul is pronounced Sha-ul. Paul is Paulus. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/7 "2005-07-25T22:20:08Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Probably Yehuda…unless Yuda is some Aramaic variant of the name. No, I think you’re right. My mistake. Thank for the correction. > [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Are James and Jacob anglicisations of Yakob ? Yes. > [@](#): > > What about the names Paul and Saul are they pretty much unchaged? **captain Amazing** got this. Saul was pronounced sah-OOL (rhymes with Raul) and Paulus was pronounce as POW-lus > [@](#): > > And how about the Angels, Gabriel, Michael, et-al. I/m not sure if the ancient proniciations are the same as modern Hebrew but I think it’s gah-bree-EL and Mee-kah-EL respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/8 "2005-07-25T22:25:14Z")
That shoud be shah-OOL, with a “sh” sound in the first syllable. **Cap** got it right. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/9 "2005-07-25T22:36:53Z")
So does that mean the name change from Saul to Paul wasn’t nearly as simple a word change as the Anglisised words suggest. Shah-OOL to Paulus doesn’t sound like a wordplay at all, just changing his name to Paulus (that does mean small doesn’t it?) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/10 "2005-07-25T22:44:12Z")
Yes, _paulus_ means “small.” And yes, the change in pronunciation was more significant than the written English forms would suggest. The reason for the name change is not exactly made clear in the Bible. Acts just stops calling him Saul and starts calling him Paul without explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/11 "2005-07-25T23:31:46Z")
Thanks, it shows the change wasn’t simple wordplay, as if Tony decided to sign themselves Tiny to show humility. Was Paulus a common name at the time, or was it a word unused as a name before Saul/Paul. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/12 "2005-07-26T01:14:06Z")
It existed as a name before Paul of Tarsus. There’s even a mention of a Sergius Paulus in Acts 13. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/13 "2005-07-26T01:23:29Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Matthew: _Matthai_ (mah-TYE) I was told by a reasonably educated colleague ( a crackerjack copy editor who was well versed in classical languages ) that Matthew was actually of Greek derivation: Math-ew, “well learned”, much like Eu-gene, “well-bred.” Also correct, or BS? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/14 "2005-07-26T01:45:59Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > I was told by a reasonably educated colleague ( a crackerjack copy editor who was well versed in classical languages ) that Matthew was actually of Greek derivation: Math-ew, “well learned”, much like Eu-gene, “well-bred.” > > Also correct, or BS? It sounds like your colleague was making an educated guess based on how it sounds in Greek. Matthai is a Hebrew name which means “Gift of God.” In Greek, _mathetes_ means “student” (and is actually the Greek word translated as “disciple” in the Gospels). There is also a Greek word _eu_ (pronounced ay-oo) which means “well” or “good,” and I’m guessing that your friend assumed the name Matthew was Greek and made a best guess. Unfortunately, the name in Greek is not _Math-eu_ but _Matthaias_. The “ew” is an Anglicization (from the Latin _Matthaeus_). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/15 "2005-07-26T01:58:12Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The reason for the name change is not exactly made clear in the Bible. Acts just stops calling him Saul and starts calling him Paul without explanation. According to Acts, Paul was a Roman citizen, and it wasn’t unusual for citizens from non-Roman backgrounds to take Latin names in addition to their ethnic names. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/16 "2005-07-26T02:41:11Z")
That’s probably the best explanation but it isn’t explicitly stated in Acts and once Luke starts calling him Paul, he never calls him Saul again. Acts does say he “was also called Paul” (and henceforth starts calling him that) which would imply that it was name he already had rather than something he adopted. As you say, it was customary for a lot of people to have both an ethnic name and a Roman name (John Mark, for example). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-joshua/314113/17 "2005-07-26T03:15:39Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s probably the best explanation but it isn’t explicitly stated in Acts and once Luke starts calling him Paul, he never calls him Saul again. If you’ve noticed, the switch from “Saul” to “Paul” in Acts comes at the same time he stops preaching to Jews and starts trying to convert non-Jews…so, I think the change is from the Jew Saul preaching to other Jews, to the citizen Paul, preaching to the entire empire, regardless of religion or ethnicity.