# Jesus' surname **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 20, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306 "2003-02-20T11:19:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DrNick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@DrNick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrNick)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/1 "2003-02-20T11:19:39Z")
Was Christ his family name (eg. was he the son of Joe and Mary Christ?), or was it an honorific given to him. If so, anyone know what his surname was? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/2 "2003-02-20T11:26:50Z")
No; Christ means the same as _Messiah_ - it is a title, not a surname. The idea of surnames was still under development back then; he probably would have been ‘Jesus the carpenter’s son’ ---
**Author:** ![DrNick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@DrNick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrNick)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/3 "2003-02-20T11:33:10Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/4 "2003-02-20T11:38:08Z")
The Master speaks. [What was Jesus’ real name?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_035a.html) ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/5 "2003-02-20T11:38:54Z")
You sometimes see him refered to as **Joshua ben Joseph**. ---
**Author:** ![DrNick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@DrNick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrNick)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/6 "2003-02-20T11:42:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*The Master speaks. [What was Jesus’ real name?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_035a.html) \*\* I _knew_ it would be there somewhere, I just couldn’t track it down :rolleyes:. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/7 "2003-02-20T12:19:37Z")
> [@](#): > > You sometimes see him refered to as Joshua ben Joseph. You’d expect it, but in fact he’s usually called _son of Mary_, or sometjhing that is translated “the Nazorene”. I’ve seen it transliterated as _Yeshu ha Notzri"_ Some thing this means “Jesus of Nazareth”, but I understand that there aren’t any contemporary references to a town of Nazareth. So some think it means “Jesus the Nazirite”, or something like that. Interesting stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/8 "2003-02-20T13:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\*I’ve seen it transliterated as _Yeshu ha Notzri"_ Some thing this means “Jesus of Nazareth”, but I understand that there aren’t any contemporary references to a town of Nazareth. So some think it means “Jesus the Nazirite”, or something like that. Interesting stuff. \*\* _Notzri_, BTW, is Hebrew for “Christian”. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/9 "2003-02-20T14:22:29Z")
His last name was Jones – you know, like that band! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Rie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rie)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/10 "2003-02-20T14:24:08Z")
Isn’t his full name “Jesus H. Christ Almighty”?? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/11 "2003-02-20T14:39:16Z")
Nick: The “ben Josheph” designation might need a bit more expaination. “ben” means “son of” in Hebrew. You still see it all in many Israeli names today. And, BTW, Arabic being very similar to Hebrew, has “bin” or sometimes “ibin” with the same meaning (e.g., Osama bin Laden). Not to imply a lilnk between these two men other than both speaking semitic languages Christ is a Greek word (actually Kristos) that is often translated as “the annointed one”. So Jesus Christ is an anglicized version of a bilingual name (Y’shua Kristos) that contains an honorific. ---
**Author:** ![swannguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@swannguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swannguy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/12 "2003-02-20T14:41:58Z")
For an interesting, critical refreshing take on the life of Jesus, I’d suggest you pick up Jose Saramago’s “The Gospel According to Jesus Christ”. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/13 "2003-02-20T15:55:10Z")
Just to expand on **John Mace** , the Aramaic language was in common use at the time. It’s very similar to Hebrew – sort of like the similarity between Spanish and Portugese, I guess. The Aramaic patronym is “bar”, as in the coming of age ceremony “Bar Mitzvah” (“son of commandment”). So the man’s name might have been Yesu bar Yoseph. Now I’m going to go see what Unca Cecil has to say. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/14 "2003-02-20T16:11:30Z")
Scuba: Interesting. I had wondered why some Jewish surnames had “bar” instead of “ben”. Never thought a bout Aramaic… On the Arabic “ibin” side, you have all the Saudi roayl family members who use “ibin Saud” (or sometimes you see it transliterated as “ib’n Saud”) at the end of their (usually long) names. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/15 "2003-02-20T22:59:59Z")
It’s _ibn_, only one vowel, never _ibin_ (so don’t add an apostrophe to make it _ib’n_. because there’s no vowel missing from between the b and the n). The form _bin_ is a colloquial variant. Actually, the Classical Arabic word is _ibnu_, but the final short vowel is usually dropped in pronunciation and transliteration. Also, the initial vowel _i-_ represents a _waslah_ in Arabic, which means that it’s elided (dropped) in the presence of the final vowel in the word that precedes it, resulting in the form _bnu_. Therefore in the Classical Arabic of the Qur’an, the name “Jesus son of Mary” is **‘_Îsá bnu Maryam_.** You elide (run together) the first two parts in pronuciation, so it’s pronounced ‘Îsabnu Maryam. Is that clear? When _ibn_ comes at the beginning of a phrase, no vowel preceding it, then the initial vowel _i-_ is kept, for example _Ibn Sa‘ûd_. Actually, Ibn Sa‘ûd was a bloke who lived in the 18th century. His descendant who founded Saudi Arabia in the 20th century is conventionally called Ibn Saud in English, but in fact his real name was ‘Abd al-‘Azîz ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmân Âl Sa‘ûd. The word _Âl_ means ‘family’, so the family name is actually Âl Sa’ûd. The word for ‘family’ is Âl, capital A, long vowel, no hyphen, not to be confused with the definite article _al-_, which should always have a lowercase _a_, a short vowel, and followed with a hyphen to avoid confusion. As for Jesus’s family name, dude, people didn’t use family names in that time and place. There are still some cultures in the present day that get by just fine without any family names or surnames, hard as that concept is to grasp in a society where every official form has a family name field you have to fill in or the computer won’t accept it. Not all the particular cultural traits of modern America are necessarily universals. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/16 "2003-02-20T23:04:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*from [ark-of-salvation\*](http://www.ark-of-salvation.org/jesus_christ_2003.htm) > \*\*The Christian Era (abbreviated “CE”), which Jews call the Common Era (also “CE”), began with the birth of a man whose Hebrew name was Yeshua. Although this name is not at all difficult for English speakers to pronounce, the King James translators of the Bible chose to take his name from the Greek New Testament, in which book he was called “Iasous”. This name, for reasons which are not entirely clear, became “Jesus” in England. > > The name “Jesus” is too far removed from “Yeshua” to be considered a proper translation, but it is also too overwhelmingly popular to possibly avoid using. This account of his life therefore accedes to peer pressure and employs the English pseudonym, Jesus. > > As we shall see, Jesus, son of Joseph the carpenter of Nazareth, was unequivocally the Jewish Messiah, provided that we define the word “Messiah” precisely as the Bible does. In the Greek language the word “Messiah” is rendered “Christus” (the “Ch-” being a guttural sound), a word with disturbingly pagan connotations, but one which, again, is overwhelmingly popular, so much as to defy all efforts to avoid its use.\*\* and then there is this viewpoint > [@](#): > > \*from [the followers of Yah Shua\*](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3421/History.html) > **The very first time the world ever saw the word Iesous (Jesus) was in 1516. Up until that time The Name Yah Shua was the only motive power of the first called-out believers! And they never had heard the word Jesus… > YAH SHUA was brought over into Greek as Iesous; Iesous became Iesus in Latin, and then Iesus in English. In the 16th century, Iesus became Jesus when J was added to the English alphabet… > The Hebrew Name of our Saviour and Redeemer which the angel gave to Joseph is exactly the same as the Old Testament’s (so called Joshua), which is not Joshua but Yah Shua , which means Everlasting Father. YAH means YAHWEH and SHUA means SAVES.** That certainly is a new slant that I’ve never heard before. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/17 "2003-02-20T23:50:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*Christ is a Greek word (actually Kristos) that is often translated as “the annointed one”. So Jesus Christ is an anglicized version of a bilingual name (Y’shua Kristos) that contains an honorific. \*\* Actually, “Iesous” is a Greek transliteration of “Y’shua”. What is interesting is that, when the name was coined, there may have been a bit of wordplay. Yeshua means, roughly “YHWH is salvation”. Iesous is related to the Greek “iasthai”–to heal. Eusebius, for example, stresses this connection in his commentary on Acts. Unlike Iesous, “Xristos” is an outright translation rather than an attempt to render the same sounds in Greek. It is a translation of the Hebrew “Meshiach”, which means “anointed”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/18 "2003-02-21T00:01:46Z")
Jomo: Are you sure about “ibin”? Where doe “bin” come from, then? Is that just a mistaken transliteration, or is it another word entirely? Ibin does look wrong now that you mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/19 "2003-02-21T00:06:18Z")
Both “ibn” and “bin” are legitimate–they’re regional variations like “Mac” and “Mc”. (However, “O” and “O’” are not actually valid variations. “O Conor” is correct. “O’Conor” is a bizarre Englishism.) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306/20 "2003-02-21T02:57:17Z")
**Mace** , I had already answered your question before you asked it. > [@](#): > > **The form _bin_ is a colloquial variant.** To elaborate: Colloquial Arabic doesn’t use the final short vowels of Classical Arabic, which show the case inflections. Therefore, when the initial _i-_ is elided, and the final _-u_ are dropped from the full form _ibnu_, you would be left with a vowelless word, \*_bn_. (The asterisk is used to show a hypothetical form that never actually existed.) You can’t have a vowelless word in Arabic. So the colloquial pronunciation just sticks a vowel into the middle of it, providing an easy-to-say invariant form _bin_. All you have to do to verify that there is no such word \*_ibin_ is to check any Arabic dictionary, such as the widely-used _A Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic_ by Hans Wehr. The difference between _ibn_ and _bin_ is that the former is Classical and Modern Standard Arabic, while the latter is colloquial. Classical/Standard Arabic is the only acceptable version of the language for use in writing; the colloquial is almost never written except in cartoon balloons and TV sitcom scripts. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-surname/156306.md?page=2)